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Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:30 am
by Ria dell
Purpose of this thread:
This series of threads are dedicated to exploring mechanic interactions, build optimizations, and novel aspects of the game engine, in an attempt to find their outer limits. By knowing these limits, individual players can make an educated decision on how to play the game, in an effort to play in the way they find the most enjoyable.

Previous Threads:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1266212-2469-armor-3199-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-31-perks/, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1275179-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs/, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1279078-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs-post-3/, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1289727-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs-post-4/, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1300996-armor-cap-ridiculous-damage-enchanting-alchemy-smithing-only-21-perks-thread-5/, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1310006-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-6/, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1313851-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-7/

Contributors, in no particular order:
Jerich, Domilasa, Whisk3yjack, Nerevar X, DieBySword, Dimeron, gabriel_eliot, Excessive, fragonard, Human Being, wtflag, Barlow, Lothario

tl;dr summary:
  • Any Armor can reach the Armor Cap of 567, which is 80% Physical Damage Reduction
  • Magic and Elemental Resist stack, and cap at 85%, which is 97.75% Magical Damage Reduction
  • All weapons can do obscene damage with the proper perks and crafting skills
  • Destruction spells can do obscene damage with the proper perks and crafting skills
  • You can use any weapons and any armor, and still have a viable character
Table of Contents:
  • Base Character Template, Crafting Gear (see below)
  • http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1317202-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-8/page__view__findpost__p__19804940
  • http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1317202-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-8/page__view__findpost__p__19804949
  • http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1317202-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-8/page__view__findpost__p__19804959
  • http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1317202-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-8/page__view__findpost__p__19804964


Base Character Template, Crafting Gear

The original discussion assumed melee combat, and a desire to maximize Armor Rating, Magic Resistance, and Weapon Damage. As such, Daedric Crafting was assumed, and a either One-handed or Two-Handed was incorporated into the baseline.

The result was the following template:
  • Enchanting (8) [100]: 5/5 Enchanter, Insightful, Corpus, Extra Effect
  • Alchemy (7) [100]: 5/5 Alchemist, Physician, Benefactor
  • Smithing (5): Up to Daedric
  • {Weapon Skill} (5): 5/5 Armsman or 5/5 Barbarian
  • Heavy Armor (1): 1/5 Juggernaut
These perks enabled:
  • 29% Fortify Enchanting enchantments
  • 29% Fortify Smithing enchantments
  • 32% Fortify Alchemy potions
  • 130% Fortify Smithing potions
Your process should look something like this:
  • Purchase and Drink a Fortify Enchantment potion (>=25%)
  • Fortify Alchemy enchantments 28% x4
  • Fortify Enchantment potions 32%
  • Fortify Alchemy enchantments 29% x4
  • Fortify Smithing enchantments 29% x4
  • Fortify Smithing potions 130%
This enables a total of +246% Weapon and Armor Improvement. It may be wise to make multiple of the potions during the process, just in case your spend too much time in the enchanting screen.

When the above crafting equipment and potions are used to craft and enchant your gear, you end up with some astonishing results:
  • Full Daedric Armor: 2125 Armor
  • Daedric Bow: 562 Damage
  • Daedric Dagger: 171 Damage
  • Daedric Two Handed Sword: 605 Damage
  • Daedric One Handed Sword: 518 Damage
These values assume 4x Fortify Weapon Skill enchants, and 4x Fortify Armor Skill enchants.

It was disappointing that the Fortify One-Handed enchant didn't apply to daggers, but the cumulative 30x multiplier from Sneak perks and Dark Brotherhood gear made it apparant why this was the case. These numbers are fairly extreme overkill regardless of game difficulty setting. 1500 Armor Rating was wasted due to the Armor Cap, and Dual Wield Sneak Attacks hit for over 32k after additional buffs from potions and racial abilities! In addition, it was fairly simple to hit the Magic Resistance Cap. Given that Ancient Dragons only have 3.1k HP, their melee attacks could be reduced to as low as 60 damage (lower with shield), and we could now stand in their flamebreath without noticing or caring... it was time to bend our efforts towards enabling player flexibility through optimization.

Crafting Console Commands:

Raising Skills:
  • player.advskill (skill) (uses) - Simulates using the skill x times. You can change the skill name and the number to level up naturally (doesn't screw up stats)
Smithing:
  • player.additem f 10000 - 10k septims
  • player.additem 2e4ff 10 - 10 Grand Soulgems (filled with Grand souls)
  • player.additem 3ad5b 10 - 10 Daedra Hearts
  • player.additem 5ad9d 10 - 10 Ebony Ingots
  • player.additem 877c9 1 - Gold Diamond Ring
  • player.additem 877f1 1 - Gold Diamond Necklace
  • player.additem db5d2 5 - 5 Leather
Alchemy:
  • player.additem 63b5f 10 - 10 Spriggan Sap
  • player.additem 1b3bd 10 - 10 Snowberies
  • player.additem 7ee01 10 - 10 Glowing Mushrooms

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:50 am
by Lawrence Armijo
Armor, Block, and Physical Damage Resistance

Physical Damage Resistance is fairly straight-forward. The higher your Armor Rating, the larger the incoming damage reduction. The graph of percentages is linear; one point increases it by a fixed percentage. The http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Armor shows an exponential graph, but they're plotting relative durability, which is a metric derived from the underlying damage reduction equation. It isn't wrong, but it isn't very useful for making decisions regarding your characters armor.

It turns out, with an Armor Cap as low as 567, there is a TON of flexibility in how you armor your character.

A brief summary:
  • Steel Smithing requires the least perks; Wolf Armor is the lightest Steel Armor
  • Elven Smithing requires an additional perk, but is the absolute lightest basic armor
Domilasa took the time to do http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1289727-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs-post-4/page__view__findpost__p__19516089 on all the Armor Types to determine the number of perks required to improve armor to the Armor Cap.

Assumed: NO Ancient Knowledge perk! This perk is bugged; check the bugs section for the appropriate chart.
The chart below is read: {Type}: Perk Count / Armor without Shield | Armor Perk Details | Crafting Perk Details

Heavy:
  • Deadric: 6 / 570 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Daedric Smithing
  • Dragonplate: 8 / 702 | 1/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonplate: 7 / 702 | 1/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Ebony: 6 / 685 | 1/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | Ebony Smithing
  • Orcish: 5 / 675 | 1/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | Orcish Smithing
  • Steel Plate: 5 / 666 | 1/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | Advanced Armors
  • Dwarven: 4 / 649 | 1/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | Dwarven Smithing
  • Steel: 3 / 639 | 1/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | Steel Smithing
  • Iron: 5 / 580 | 4/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | None
Light:
  • Dragonscale: 8 / 660 | 1/5 Agile Defender, 1/1 Custom Fit | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonscale: 7 / 660 | 1/5 Agile Defender, 1/1 Custom Fit | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Glass: 6 / 643 | 1/5 Agile Defender, 1/1 Custom Fit | Glass Armor
  • Scaled: 5 / 618 | 1/5 Agile Defender, 1/1 Custom Fit | Advanced Armors
  • Elven: 4 / 607 | 1/5 Agile Defender, 1/1 Custom Fit | Elven Armor
  • Leather: 5 / 585 | 3/5 Agile Defender, 1/1 Custom Fit, 1/1 Matching Set | None
This shows us that any Armor can reach the Armor Cap. It also pointed out that Steel and Elven require very few Perks to reach this cap. The choice between approaching Dragon Armor from the Light Armor side or the Heavy Armor side is based on your weapon material preferences (see next post for more details). It's possible to save an additional perk or two if you choose to use a shield:

Heavy:
  • Deadric: 5 / 590 | None | Daedric Smithing
  • Dragonplate: 6 / 673 | None | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonplate: 5 / 717 | None | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Ebony: 4 / 567 | None | Ebony Smithing
  • Orcish: 4 / 647 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Orcish Smithing
  • Steel Plate: 4 / 630 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Advanced Armors
  • Dwarven: 3 / 620 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Dwarven Smithing
  • Steel: 2 / 609 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Steel Smithing
  • Iron: 4 / 594 | 3/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | None
Light:
  • Dragonscale: 7 / 633 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonscale: 6 / 633 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Glass: 5 / 617 | 1/5 Agile Defender| Glass Armor
  • Scaled: ???
  • Elven: 3 / 580 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Elven Armor
  • Leather: ???

Amazingly, you can reach the Armor cap using basic Steel Armor and only 1 Armor Perk! You pay for that frugality in Weight. A full set of Steel armor weighs 64 (generic weight units). However, Wolf Armor, which is just another variant of Steel Armor, only weighs 32.5 (generic weight units). If you're going Heavy Armor, and you're tight on Perks, Wolf is definitely the way to go. For Light Armor, the answer is much simpler: Elven is the cheapest and lightest. It's also worth noting that Ebony Armor with Shield and No Armor Perks provides exactly 567 Armor Rating.

It's interesting to note that all of these numbers were achieved without ANY Fortify Armor enchants. As long as you get the core crafting perks from the Base Template, you can customize and improve your armor and enchantments without worry.

Block:
There is quite a bit of info on Block, but I have yet to consolidate it. Domilasa and Lothario have done an excellent job fleshing it out. Except this area to be updated shortly.

A couple other odds and ends:
  • No known enemy has Armor Ignore abilities, even though the player has access to 75% Armor Ignore.
  • Lord Stone is a flat 50 Armor Rating added to your final Armor value after all other effects have been calculated.
  • Heavy Armor Damage Reflection does not decrease damage by 10%; it just reflects incoming damage

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:11 pm
by Charleigh Anderson
Magic: Resistances, Absorption, and Support Gear

Magic Resistance is actually a lot simpler than most people make it out to be.

  • Magic Absorption is applied first, and is a hit-or-miss chance to completely negate all the effects of a spell.
  • Magic Absorption has an 80% Soft Cap; Bretons can get it to 100% once per day.
  • Magic Resistance is applied next. Incoming damage is reduced by the Magic Resistance percentage.
  • Magic Resistance caps at 85%.
  • Elemental Resistance is applied to the remaining damage. Remaining damage is reduced by the Elemental Resistance percentage.
  • Elemental Resistance caps at 85%.
Magic Absorption applies to all effects, including damage, stamina drain, mana drain, slows, burning, Dragon Shouts, weapon enchants, and poisons. Notably, it also effects Conjurations, which actually makes it possible to fail a summon due to this effect.

There are only a couple sources of Magic Absorption:
  • The Atronach Stone: 50% - South of Windhelm
  • Alteration Tree: 30% - Atronach perk
  • Breton: 50% - 60 second racial ability
There are a number of sources of Magic Resistance:
  • Breton: 25%
  • Lord's Stone: 25% - Southwest of Dawnstar.
  • Agent Of Mara: 15% - Quest starts in the Temple of Mara at Riften
  • Alteration Tree: 30% - Magic Resistance perks
  • Enchant a Ring, Necklace, or Shield: 23% each
  • Savior's Hide Armor: 15%
  • Shield of Solitude: 10-30% (leveled) - Quest reward for http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Wolf_Queen_Awakened
  • Potion of Resist Magic: 32% each
Likewise, there are an abundant number of sources of Elemental Resistance:
  • Dunmer: 50% Resist Fire passive
  • Nord: 50% Resist Frost passive
  • Block Tree: 50% - Elemental Protection perk
  • Otar: 30% to all 3 elements - Dragon Priest mask, Heavy Armor
  • Enchant a Ring, Necklace, Boots, or Shield: 43% each
  • Potion of Resist {element}: ???%
If you're willing to spend a few extra perks in enchanting, the Fire Enchanter, Frost Enchanter and Shock Enchanter perks can give you an additional 11% effectiveness when creating Elemental Resistance enchants. Combined with Otar, this would mean you only need one of each to reach the Elemental Resist cap. This also has a side effect of better weapon enchants if you choose to go elemental on them.

Becoming a Better Mage through Support Gear:

It turns out, there's a lot you can do with crafting to benefit a Mage. There are really 3 major mechanics for this:
  • Reduce the Mana Cost of a Spell School using an Enchantment
  • Increase Damage / Duration / Effectiveness of a Spell School using a Potion
  • Make the enemy more susceptible to your magic with a Poison
The most commonly known mechanic is to use enchanting to reduce the Mana Cost of a Spell School to 0%, thereby making spells from that school free. This enchant can be placed on Headgear, Necklaces, Rings, and Armors (including Robes), and each one can exceed 25% mana cost reduction. There is no benefit to exceeding 100% mana cost reduction (I tried; I was sad I couldn't regen mana by casting spells. :-p). With the Extra Effect perk, you can actually reduce 2 schools to 0% Mana Cost. Not too shabby.

The other two improvements are through Alchemy. In Enchanting, Fortify {Spell School} reduces mana cost. In Alchemy, Fortify {Spell School} improves their relative effects:
  • Fortify Alteration: Increases Duration of Spells
  • Fortify Conjuration: Increases Duration of Spells
  • Fortify Destruction: Increases Damage of Spells
  • Fortify Illusion: Increases Level of Spells
  • Fortify Restoration: Increases Strength of Spells (bugged)
My favorite part of this list is the Fortify Destruction potion. +162% Spell Damage! So an appropriately perked destruction mage can throw around 235 point DualCast Thunderbolts regularly, and boost that to over 615 points for 60 seconds with a potion... all without spending any mana! That sounds pretty effective to me. But it get's better.

Alchemy also provides poisons like Weakness to Magic, Weakness to {Element}, and Weakness to Poison.
  • Weakness to Magic: Magic Damage taken after the poison is applied is increased. Max is 100% from Vendor (???), 65% crafted.
  • Weakness to {Element}: Elemental Damage taken after the poison is applied is increased. Stacks with Weakness to Magic. Max is 97% crafted.
  • Weakness to Poison: Poison Effects applied after THIS poison is applied are increased. Stacks with any unique poison effect-list. Max is 65% crafted.
While we still need to do more controlled testing, the numbers seem to indicate the ability to two-shot an Ancient Dragon (Roughly a 2.5k Dualcast Thunderbolt). Hit them with an arrow coated in Weakness to Poison / Weakness to Element combo. Hit them with another arrow coated with Weakness to Magic. Drink your Fortify Destruction potion, and call down wrath from the heavens. This is even more exciting if you're a Shock Mage with the Disintegrate Perk.

While it's a bit of a juggling act at first, and it requires quite a bit of preparation... you don't need to use it all. Just carrying around a few Fortify Destruction potions should make your Evoker a lot more fun to play. You can also go the other direction, and make a number of unique Weakness to Poison variants, and they will all stack, so you can create some truly epic damage numbers... if your target lives that long.

As a last aside, Destruction Damage Increase perks, and Fortify Destruction potions, also improve the damage of your Elemental Enchants.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:10 am
by Cagla Cali
Damage, Weapon Styles, Weapon Enchants
in progress...

Short Version: While Dual Wielding, you can one-shot Alduin on any difficulty. Weapon Type is a matter of preference, but Dual Maces is a bad idea. I could post more details, they are still changing quite rapidly, so I'd rather wait until we have some results.

More anon.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:16 am
by I love YOu
Bugs and Exploits, Other

Marksmanship Potion
It appears that the Marksmanship potions increases damage from ALL weapons, not just bows.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/61142033
Using this, you can stack multiple piece of enchanted armor, thereby increasing your alchemy or smithing effectiveness.

Restoration Loop
Reminiscent of the Morrowind Alchemy glitch, restoration potions enhance the effectiveness of equipped enchants. Effectively gives you unlimited power. A number of people have used this to roll over from 2147483648 to negative values... which indicates Skyrim uses Signed 32-bit Integers for storing certain values.

Ancient Knowledge bug
Ancient Knowledge is a quest reward Perk you get for finishing the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unfathomable_Depths quest. It is supposed to give you a bonus to armor rating when wearing Dwarven Armor, and make it so you learn Smithing 15% faster. Instead, it appears to boost the Improve Smithing effectiveness, and it stacks with all the other crafting synergies we've created thus far. It may also be impacting other skills.

Below is the Armor Value chart when you have the Ancient Knowledge perk bug.
The chart below is read: {Type}: Perk Count / Armor without Shield | Armor Perk Details | Crafting Perk Details

Heavy:
  • Deadric: 5 / 589 | None | Daedric Smithing
  • Dragonplate: 6 / 579 | None | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonplate: 5 / 579 | None | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Ebony: 4 / 570 | None | Ebony Smithing
  • Orcish: 4 / 670 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Orcish Smithing
  • Steel Plate: 4 / 664 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Advanced Armors
  • Dwarven: 3 / 648 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Dwarven Smithing
  • Steel: 2 / 634 | 1/5 Juggernaut | Steel Smithing
  • Iron: 4 / 604 | 3/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | None
Light:
  • Dragonscale: 7 / 655 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonscale: 6 / 655 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Glass: 5 / 643 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Glass Armor
  • Scaled: 4 / 619 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Advanced Armors
  • Elven: 3 / 609 | 1/5 Agile Defender | Elven Armor
  • Leather: 4 / 606 | 2/5 Agile Defender, 1/1 Custom Fit, 1/1 Matching Set | None
The chart below is read: {Type}: Perk Count / Armor with Shield | Armor Perk Details | Crafting Perk Details

Heavy:
  • Deadric: 5 / 731 | None | Daedric Smithing
  • Dragonplate: 6 / 717 | None | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonplate: 5 / 717 | None | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Ebony: 4 / 705 | None | Ebony Smithing
  • Orcish: 3 / 691 | None | Orcish Smithing
  • Steel Plate: 3 / 686 | None | Advanced Armors
  • Dwarven: 2 / 665 | None | Dwarven Smithing
  • Steel: 1 / 651 | None | Steel Smithing
  • Iron: 3 / 621 | 2/5 Juggernaut, 1/1 Well Fitted | None
Light:
  • Dragonscale: 6 / 676 | None | Dragon Armor (from Heavy Armor Side)
  • Dragonscale: 5 / 676 | None | Dragon Armor (from Light Armor Side)
  • Glass: 4 / 663 | None | Glass Armor
  • Scaled: ???
  • Elven: 2 / 625 | None | Elven Armor
  • Leather: ???

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:00 pm
by Marcin Tomkow
I understand this is somewhat unrelated to the point of your topic (build freedom via smithing looping), but I think it would be interesting to see similar stat-crunching in regards to playing without boosting any skills above 100. Is there a spreadsheet out there or in the works that would let us artificial-limiters play with the stats/perks/various equips? (Kind of like the ones that exist for Demon/Dark Souls)

If not, I'd be inclined to start one, but looking at the previous threads there are so many oddities with the numbers in-game that it seems like a nightmare :/

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:24 am
by Kelsey Hall
Thread-jump!

No way to test proc chances that I know of. At this point though just about anything in the game could be (and probably is :P) misleading.

Edit: I'll hopefully be playing The Old Republic in about 12 hours so testing might slow down after that ;)
And not only perks. :) Someone ready to go through every description in the game? Maybe some things even share a description when they're different. Or have different descriptions when they do the same thing! :o

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:47 am
by Alkira rose Nankivell
Can anyone confirm if all this still works on xbox 360 after patch 1.3

Thank you

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:25 am
by Connor Wing
Can anyone confirm if all this still works on xbox 360 after patch 1.3

The patch changed nothing discussed in this series of threads.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:41 am
by Alisha Clarke
Can anyone confirm if all this still works on xbox 360 after patch 1.3

Thank you

Yes for PC.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:20 pm
by joseluis perez
Just a thought on http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1313851-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-7/page__st__160__p__19794840#entry19794840.

Don't worry, you're almost done with me.

Even if I use a shield, there aren't any perks I can cut out as a result of using said shield on that template that I can see. Am I wrong? My understanding is that it's going to take 13 perks either way (with or without a shield) to get there, so what you're saying is that I may as well not worry about the shield at all because it's not going to do any significant amount of good (aside from lowering physical damage from 15% incoming down to about 2% incoming in situations where I have my shield up).

Is this a correct understanding? I think it is, but would like to be sure.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:33 am
by Jarrett Willis
Just a thought on http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1313851-complete-character-design-freedom-damage-resist-caps-and-ridiculous-damage-thread-7/page__st__160__p__19794840#entry19794840.

Don't worry, you're almost done with me.

Even if I use a shield, there aren't any perks I can cut out as a result of using said shield on that template that I can see. Am I wrong? My understanding is that it's going to take 13 perks either way (with or without a shield) to get there, so what you're saying is that I may as well not worry about the shield at all because it's not going to do any significant amount of good (aside from lowering physical damage from 15% incoming down to about 2% incoming in situations where I have my shield up).

Is this a correct understanding? I think it is, but would like to be sure.

You might be able to drop 1 point out of Light Armor if you'll always be using a Shield, but I wouldn't recommend limiting yourself that way. Getting armor capped without a Shield means your mitigation doesn't suffer when you're using a bow or Two-Hander. And as I mentioned earlier, with 1/5 in Shield Wall and a modest Fortify Block enchant, any Two Hander will block as well as a Shield.

The only things a Shield offers you at this point are: (1) extra enchanting slot(s); (2) Deflect Arrows; and (3) Elemental Protection. But that all comes at the cost of lower damage output, more perks required, and less flexibility.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:50 am
by Mr. Allen
i have a question about Magic wards .. do they really absorb spells ? i ask cause i didn't see them in your list in "absorb spells" and never got a chance to use restoration at a decent level with my mage (i went with alteration instead )

Are Wards really worth it for defence ? Can i ignore Alteration in my next Necromancer playthrough in favour of Restoration and wards ? Thank you for answer ;)

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:36 am
by Greg Swan
Are Wards really worth it for defence ? Can i ignore Alteration in my next Necromancer playthrough in favour of Restoration and wards ? Thank you for answer ;)

From UESP:

Increases armor rating by points and negates up to points of spell damage or effect Wards are very useful, defensive spells belonging to the school of restoration. When used, a ward will cancel any incoming magic that makes contact with the barrier. However, wards are only effective against frontal attacks, and will not stop spells that come from the sides or behind. Wards must be held and sustained to have any effect, and, as such, constantly drain a mage's magicka, forcing them to use their ward sparingly, lest they be left helpless against their foes

Wards can be very helpful, but they're not reliable as a primary defense mechanism. You'll still need either Armor or Alteration perks to keep you alive.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:54 pm
by Craig Martin
You might be able to drop 1 point out of Light Armor if you'll always be using a Shield, but I wouldn't recommend limiting yourself that way. Getting armor capped without a Shield means your mitigation doesn't suffer when you're using a bow or Two-Hander. And as I mentioned earlier, with 1/5 in Shield Wall and a modest Fortify Block enchant, any Two Hander will block as well as a Shield.

The only things a Shield offers you at this point are: (1) extra enchanting slot(s); (2) Deflect Arrows; and (3) Elemental Protection. But that all comes at the cost of lower damage output, more perks required, and less flexibility.

That's a very good point, especially considering we consider our bow to be our primary weapon, and as such are usually not wearing or using the shield.

Very good points. I think we'll not limit ourselves and do as you suggest. Thank you for the help and advice!

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:55 am
by Farrah Barry
From UESP:

Wards can be very helpful, but they're not reliable as a primary defense mechanism. You'll still need either Armor or Alteration perks to keep you alive.

Thanks for answer ;)

Interesting , so i can't ignore Alteration school with my robe wearing mage ? Will it be simply impossible to survive with just wards , i mean is it really not viable or just more difficult without alteration ?

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:56 pm
by Alexis Estrada
Thanks for answer ;)

Interesting , so i can't ignore Alteration school with my robe wearing mage ? Will it be simply impossible to survive with just wards , i mean is it really not viable or just more difficult without alteration ?

It depends on your difficulty setting and your combat tactics. I'm sure it's technically possible, just be aware that even mid level archers on Adept and Master will one-shot you if your Ward isn't ready (or if you're OOM).

That's actually a great idea for an interesting self-imposed challenge; pure mage on Master, no armor/ alteration spells, ward as only defense.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:32 am
by Prisca Lacour
It depends on your difficulty setting and your combat tactics. I'm sure it's technically possible, just be aware that even mid level archers on Adept and Master will one-shot you if your Ward isn't ready (or if you're OOM).

That's actually a great idea for an interesting self-imposed challenge; pure mage on Master, no armor/ alteration spells, ward as only defense.
That's just maschism. I imposed some strict limits on my Pure Mage character, but eventually had to turn it down from Master to Expert just to make the game fun again... and that's after allowing for Conjured Weapons, as long as I didn't put perks in the weapon tree. No alteration either? Limiting yourself to 5/18 trees just feels... wrong, somehow. I'm sure someone will try it.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:29 am
by Tania Bunic
Some more quick notes on spell absorption bugs.

-necromancy conjuration spells cannot be absorbed, since those target dead bodies. Which is a good thing since dead thrall is one of the best spell in the game.
-Master restoration spell Guardian circle will also get absorbed. So that means Guardian circle is like a free magicka battery. (One of the good thing with the bug).
-Besides spells, perk effects will also be absorbed. Shadow Warrior does not work on my character who has 80% spell absorb. Apparently, quick reflex from the block tree is also a spell effect that can be absorbed, although I haven't tested this. So don't get those perks if you are planning on 80% spell absorb.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:53 am
by Tikarma Vodicka-McPherson
That's just maschism. I imposed some strict limits on my Pure Mage character, but eventually had to turn it down from Master to Expert just to make the game fun again... and that's after allowing for Conjured Weapons, as long as I didn't put perks in the weapon tree. No alteration either? Limiting yourself to 5/18 trees just feels... wrong, somehow. I'm sure someone will try it.
I did this a while ago... on Adept. I stopped after becoming arch-mage because it was very tedious. Killing the dragon priest guarding the Staff of Magnus took me a half an hour, and involved spamming the bastage with Lightning bolts, running away, hiding, waiting for him to go back to his waiting point, spamming lightning bolts, etc. In other words, not very fun. :P
-Loth

Edit: Looking at Dimeron's post, it seems that spell absorption is definitely a double-edged sword.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:33 am
by Bryanna Vacchiano


Edit: Looking at Dimeron's post, it seems that spell absorption is definitely a double-edged sword.
If you're on PC, there is a mod for this. At least in part.

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3352

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:23 am
by Del Arte
Nice tip, fragonard.
-Loth

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:05 am
by Bereket Fekadu
Addendum about decaps:

I just decapped The Caller (from the mages college QL) and she was nowhere near dead. Remember when we were wondering if decap was just +25% and some new animations? I will attest that the decap fired before she was damaged enough to be one-shotted by a power attack. Scouts honor. :)
-Loth

Edit: But she WAS the last enemy in the bunch, as I took out her atronach servants before turning to her. Can't say I've ever seen a decap in the middle of a fight... I suspect that the decap is an instakill, but only works on the last enemy, similar to kill animations.

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:33 pm
by Samantha Jane Adams
That echoes what I've experienced too. I've made a few decaps on the first hit, on "boss" enemies, but only if they were the last/only ones around.

I thought for a brief moment that the decap perks gave a kill-effect similar to Mehrunes Razor when fighting several opponents - but then I noticed that I did in fact have the Razor equipped :blush:

Complete Character Design Freedom (Damage Resist Caps and Ri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:45 am
by Roanne Bardsley
Hmm... has anybody ever been decapped by a high-level opponent before? We know the NPCs use perks and kill animations... I wonder if it's possible to be instakilled by a bandit chief or something. Simply having a companion or summons might protect you from this.

-Loth