Game Skyrim Forum

Unlike Lord of the Rings where J.R. Tolkien came up with Orcs. Elder Scrolls orcs tend to be more way more violent.

I just think like they are hunters like the beings in the movie Predator with Arnold Schwarzenegger. When you take your helmet off in a fist fight, the other guy is thinking in horror that you're one ugly mother [censored]. Anyone ever think that? or is it just me?

I always saw the Orcs in that kind of way. Hunters/ warriors that are extremely aggressive.

As usual, Jupier Knight, my opinion is the mirror-image opposite of yours. I see Orcs as more civilized and less inherently violent than Orcs in other stories and far less violent than Predators. Orcs in Tamriel are librarians, farmers, Innkeeprs, stewards to Counts, even Nobles. They fit into society like any other playable race.

I agree. It's hard to imagine a more violent race than the Orcs as depicted in Tolkien. They were created for no other purpose and they are depicted as such, completely lacking in any sort of art or learning beyond the minimum necessary to carry out war. Whereas the Orcs in TES are far more civilized and pursue artistic talents, civilization and learning in addition to violence. If we are looking for sci-fi references, I'd liken the Orcs in TES more to the Klingons of Star Trek than the alien in Predator.

I think they′re nothing like Tokien′s orcs precisely because of how civilized they are. It′s canon Tokien that an entire tower of relatively civilized orcs killed itself over some petty squabble of two minor commanders, lol. Orcs in Elder Scrolls carved themselves a small nation.

ps:tldr turija′s ninja′d answer

We Orcs are more civilised than those created by the Professor of Anglo-Saxon

I just finished Pratchett's Unseen Academicals (for the umpteenth time), and he has them created from man by a long gone magician. They were made as weapons of war, much like the movie version of Tolkien. I've never read his books, but it seems more logical to me...an artificial race.

The ES elves are fairly original takes on those characters too.

Maybe someone should write one of the Shakespeare's plays in the Orcish tongue.

I will!

But what about Orsinium's brutal history? The orcs were going around burning and pillaging before the Redguards and Bretons made an alliance to burn their stronghold to the ground. Sure, they are capable of peace. Every race is. The orc's problem is that they lie about it.

Lol, name a race in Tamriel that does NOT have a brutal history.

^Weren't the Atmorans essentially the early Nords? If so, I think the Snow Elves would disagree with you.

If Gelebor is anything to go by, the Atmorans and Ysgramor were dikes.

It's hard for me to imagine Snow Elves being all that bad now, if they had a Chantry of Auri-El type of culture.... while Nords engaged in screwed up dragon cults.

Except Tiber Septim was born in Atmora and he was as warlike as they come, running all over the place conquering everyone.

Atmorans were the guys responsible for the Nord thinking that a duel is a legitimate way to choose a political leader. Brutal.

Hey, Tyrion Lannister was OK at least. edit: Not that he dueled for leadership per se.

Agree with you here, Orcs in elder scroll are just another race, a bit less civilized and more violent than standard but that is also mostly cultural.

Orcs in LOTR are monsters.

Beauty can be relative. Whose to say that the Yautja or the Orcs don't find everyone else ugly.

On a serious note, I haven't read much of J.R Tolkiens work but referencing the movies, aren't J.R.'s Orcs even more war like that Tamriel's Orcs? To me that would suggest JR's are more aggressive than Tamriel's

On the subject of Atmorans, their old home was inhospitable (getting way too cold to live there anymore) so some went south to Tamriel (now Skyrim). The Snow Elves threatened their existence so the Nords had no choice but to push back to ensure their survival. Although I can imagine as any race has done in Tamriel, some probably led raids on settlements.

I think some of the Orc women in Skyrim are kinda sixy in a raw animalistic sort of way.

Well, I've read the Silmarillion, The Hobbit and LOTR several times over the years. From what I recall, Tolkien's orcs are portrayed in his books as utterly miserable beings, completely lacking in compassion and hating everyone and everything including themselves and their masters, whom they serve out of fear, rather than loyalty. Although not entirely dim-witted and occasionally crafty and often cunning, they make no beautiful things, but only design devices made to hurt and destroy. They are quite different than Orcs in TES.

*Gasp* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEiMv4mCI1g&feature=youtu.be&t=223 Silliness aside I noticed Zenimax Media Online actually http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/f/f5/Orsimer_(Online).jpg making them look even more human.

Then yes TES Orcs definitely are quite different. They take more pride in themselves and are more civilized.

So, I got curious about how well my recollection of Tolkien's orcs has held up over time and found http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/11859/were-there-ever-any-good-orcsarticle about whether there was ever a "good" orc depicted in Tolkien's works. This article seems like a pretty balanced discussion and it turns out my recollection was pretty accurate.

The only example of a "good" orc anyone came up with was Ugluk, who was goal oriented, strong, not at all cowardly and put up a good fight against Eomer. Of course Tolkien's book also says that Ugluk preferred 'man flesh' to horse meat, loves to fight and kill men, drives his soldiers harshly, would rather kill the Hobbits than lose them and that he blindly follows orders. And this was the best example of a "good" orc anyone in the discussion could come up with.

Someone also quoted "Orcs will often pursue foes for many leagues into the plain, if they have a fallen captain to avenge (FotR 351)" for the argument that orcs can be loyal, although I think it is debatable that this type of revenge motive stems from actual loyalty. Seems more likely it is more an animistic instinctual reaction to a threat against one of their group, which by extension is a threat to all of them. And the same person who argued that orcs pursuit of revenge for a fallen captain demonstrated "loyalty" also admitted that "It is also known that orcs secretly hate their masters and miserable life they were forced upon."

So, there you have it, no "good" orcs in Tolkien and only one who was slightly less despicable than the rest.