Game Skyrim Forum

I actually like the whole turn of events that takes the actions of Fallout 3 and has that lead to the rise of a very angry dictator in Arthur Maxon. It is one of those things where it was not what I wanted to happen, but I don't really want a videogame that is filled with stuff I want to happen.

I don't even mind that Elder Lyons just died not even 2 years after Fallout 3... He was old.

But to kill of Sarah Lyons in half a sentence on some terminal hidden away in the corner of an office without any implication of the impact that her or Fallout 3 as a whole had on the world of Fallout 4... That is just s**t, it really truly is. I love Fallout 4, but this slap in the face to Fallout 3 is just s**t... This is the person who trained Arthur to fight and one of the key figures that made the BOS in Fallout 4 even a possibility. But you can't even be bothered to put a whole sentence toward that, when there is an entire terminal talking about the 2077 Boston Redsox...

Sarah could be killed two different ways in Fallout 3, so it was likely that she'd be absent from Fallout 4.

I'd love to say there was a possibility she wasn't dead - that she was shoved aside and exiled by Brothers who wanted a Maxson in charge, but the succession of ineffectual elders after Sarah suggests that there was no ulterior motive, and she died on the field of battle.

Who knows what the future holds, though. I suspect the Lyon's Pride will surface again in DLC, maybe trying to create a Synth replica of Sarah to lead them once more.

It's totally a possible she'll end in a DLC, IMHO.

Basically being the "Joshua Graham" of the Brotherhood of Steel.

If not, it's a tragedy because Sarah Lyons was everything best for the Capital Wasteland BoS and the headcanon love-interest (with hints in the game) for a lot of Lone Wanderers.

The fact she was a front-line fighter and Maxson follows suit also shows why its distressingly realistic.

I like the tragedy, I just hate the lack or tribute to the tragedy.

At least make someone care or something... Arthur was in love with her in Fallout 3, all he talked about was the things she taught him and the times she took him out to do real combat and he killed a super mutant.

But all we get from the Brotherhood is some random pvssyr about 'Lyons svcks' and other than that Fallout 3 doesn't exist... Well, there are references to battles in Broken Steel, but nothing that even pays tribute to anything you did in Fallout 3.

Bad things happen, good people die... it is just s**t that nobody cares and that there is no legacy left behind.

It a comedy. Plot death.

Also, the lore is the absolute worst thing in FO 4. Terrible, terrible, terrible. I'm sure glad the BoS takes credit for everything the LW did, too. Horrible, terrible, terrible, terrible.

Fo 4 lore gets a big fat F.

Yeah, it'd be nice if they were more clear about things.

In Shady Sands, you had a statue of the Vault Dweller.

The only times she can be killed is if the LW does it. Send her into PP(which we know not true) or kill her at end of BS(which isn't true). Otherwise, she was one immortal killing machine. Oh, but for plot she needs to die? Welp, then to death! We need to copy King Arthur story after all.

Had a lot more than that. Multiple NPCs who would talk about the VD. The Vault Dweller Memoirs. There was no lacking of lore in FO 2, and after all, you are the VD grandson.

Yeah, it would have been nice to have the Lone Wanderer mentioned a couple of times.

Even if they wanted to focus on Elder Maxson.

Imagine in the Scribe's terminal, there was a note which said:

Redacted Files:

"Removing all references to the Lone Wanderer and their activities from the Brotherhood's records is tedious time-consuming business. They played such an integral role in the Capital Wasteland's recent history that eliminating them them from history is extremely difficult. Even those Brotherhood members recruited after their departure tend to share stories about the 'Hero of Jefferson Memorial' and the 'Champion of Vault 101.' Elder Maxson was very clear, though, that he wants them consigned to the dust bin of history along with the Enclave."

I think it would have been awful and then we would be pointing at BGS "excuse" for no lore based on BoS "erasing" it from history, which is just a big cop out on lore. Instead it is just more evidence that BGS doesn't "get" Fallout.

I don't understand why people think the LW did so much for the BoS.

Up until Liberty Prime marched on the purifier, the LW was doing everything 100% for himself, and even then, Liberty Prime did 99% of the fighting on that mission, the LW mostly just stayed behind it.

When it came to Broken Steel

-It was Liberty Prime, and the attached BoS squad, who did 99% of the heavy lifting on the Enclave communication station assault.

-The LW did retrieve the tesla core needed to make the tesla canons, but that was one mission, and only because all the other BoS forces were out fighting Enclave or regrouping to prepare for a possible enclave attack since Prime was out of the way

-When it came to the assault on the mobile crawler, it was BoS soldiers who were fighting the overwhelming majority of Enclave forces, whereas the LW only fought a the small groups of straggelers not occupied fighting the main BoS force.

It was made pretty clear the LW wasn't doing anywhere close to a large amount of the fighting. The BoS has no real reason to mention the LW, and he/she didn't really do all that much to begin with.

Kinda forgetting finding a way into Vault 87, wiping out Vault 87 SM, getting Geck, Making sure RR blown up and killing Enclave solo, killing Col Autumn(more than likely now he not spared), knowing the code to start PP otherwise it useless, killing Super Mutant Behemoth outside GN, and the LW doing all this stuff with 0 backup, saving Madison Li who without her no Liberty Prime(which is also LW solo killing Enclave), then not to mention everything else the LW did around the CW. Didn't not much is a joke and a half, and just you excusing FO 4 total crap lore all the way around. What did Maxson do? Absolutely NOTHING. Heroes and what not tend to get remembered, especially seeing how LW should still be alive an all, not like it was 50 years ago, it was 10.

But please, keep making excuses for BGS, not to mention it isn't just BoS not mentioning. The game is overall terrible, terrible, terrible at lore.

It isn't weird, BGS doesn't understand Fallout lore in the least. If it was an older game, a recurring character would no doubt have a "story" about the past hero. But nope. Nope. It BGS Fallout, so the first advlt McCready ever let into his town and more than likely saved his friends from Paradise Falls and killed the SM living in his backyard isn't mentioned one peep. Cuz it is terrible, terrible, terrible.

Well, they DIDN'T do that and I chose to write it up not to hide anything but because I think it would be good storytelling given Arthur Maxson's cult of personality would never stomach another hero greater than him.

See Stalin.

Yeah, we have had this discussion before. I dunno why you have this head canon that Maxson is anywhere near Stalin when there is no evidence in game to support it. Maxson himself doesn't want to be placed on a pedestal, the game specifically says he doesn't like that. Stalin insisted on it. Nor is there any in game evidence of purges of any kind within the BoS. So yeah, they don't do it, I know that your head canon, but it doesn't change the fact BGS gets a big fat F on lore.

No, I actually think Maxson is a very heroic and misguided figure.

I just think he's trying to make everyone loyal to him personally.

And that he wouldn't like the Lone Wanderer for a variety of reasons.

I don't get that trait from him at all. Again, he doesn't like being held up as anything more than "just a man". You're trying to make the story better all on your own. Unfortunately, BGS is horrible at good story(they copied King Arthur for God sake) so ya got a lot of work on your hands to retcon it into something cool. But anyway, that besides the point. The lore from 3-4 is horrible, the death of Sara Lyons a crappy plot death, and the lore is terrible, terrible, terrible.

I must have missed the part of Le Morte De Arthur where Arthur launches a crusade of conquest and genocide.

I mean the whole thing is Arthur is set up to be a heroic figure and then he shows up in Fallout 4 ready to murder all the sympathetic robot people.

Because Fallout 3 players kill Slavers unless they're evil karma.

Slavers are their orcs.

And Synths=Slaves.

So it's good simple cognitive dissonance of the BOS vs. Slaves.

King Arthur fights lots of wars, and kills people. Killing people is actually worse than killing robots. Now, you may have some belief that a talky robot is a human being, and I don't care to have that debate. What matters is they most definitely made a boy king along the exact same lines of King Arthur. If you want to try and defend that, good luck. It isn't word for word, but that is what it is, and thus not original at all. I said before in the other thread, it would have been a lot better if he was a Knight, Sara was Elder, the rest of the story could be the same, and Arthur was the BoS companion.

My point is that Arthur Maxson is set up by the game to be a potential antagonist who does a lot of terrible stuff and causes the PC to question whether or not the BoS is on the right path.

They're not unambiguous heroes anymore and have a lot of creepy disturbing subtext to them.

I created a thread about how they spit on Elder Lyon's actions and look down on him (Maxson, ironically, being one of the few people who seems to have any respect for Lyons left).

It's a great subversion of where I expected them to take it.

And what makes Maxson such a great character.

Everyone expected him to be Arthur and he was Mordred all along.

I have to say, Sarah Lyons as slightly older matriarchal-type Elder with Arthur as a Paladin or honorary second-in-command or something would have been interesting.

Would have been much more satisfying to blow up the Prydwen then too.

Eh, I figure the reason they got rid of Sarah was because she was too good and heroic.

Arthur has a lot of baggage.

You can't tell if he really is all that or it's all just a show.

My ideal DLC would be Sarah Lyons and the Pride went on a mission to take down Doctor Zimmer and his Synth Factory but went MIA.

She's been his prisoner and used for making Synths ever since.

And you have to side with her or Doctor Zimmer.

Which would make a fall from grace more intriguing IMO. depending on how they wrote it.

But then again, maybe I just have a thing for all-powerful ladies.