Game Skyrim Forum

Yes by a long shot. The context here is the character system (skills, traits, attributes, perks, all that comes with it). Less moving parts there means less gameplay possibilities in that regard, rolling all into one denies the interaction between the removed parts and their individual values.

I find your consistent denying of improving anything to be the naive part here. But think what you like.

As I mentioned before, those "detrimental consequences" are always negateable fairly early on in the game, unless you make them so bad no one wants to take them, and just reloads and picks another trait that they can negate the negatives of.

As they were in New Vegas, the negatives didn't matter, and trying to make them more severe just results in an Fallout 1/2/Morrowind scenario were 99% of the player base just doesn't take those traits/birthsigns, which makes making them in the first place pointless.

Gameplay possibilities only mean something if those moving parts actually DO something. Traits did nothing that perks didn't, or at least they never managed to do those things, and even if they did, most people would avoid them because of those things.

I have never denied improvement is possible, many things i nthe games have been heavily improved upon, and done so as the coast of lesser things.

True fact.

It's the designers job to make them do something, and his fault if they don't.

Never except when talking about this particular stuff (remembering more discussions on this than just this one here).

Not really. There's lot of things you could add to a game that simply wouldn't do anything because of things beyond the developer's control.

Well, you do have a habit of talking about things that have been historically shown not to work, and also a habit of complaining that Bethesda didn't find the solution no one else has in the decades games have been doing something.

Traits, birthsigns, and other similar "pick at start" systems have had the same balancing problems for years, no one has found the fix to it, and its highly unlikely that anyone ever will. So they salvaged what they could, and got rid off the chaff. That's basic game development 101, and in all other instances I can think of, game developers get praised for doing just that and not needlessly beating the dead horse no one else has found a means to revive yet.

Is it okay that I like the dialogue system? The only improvements I'd like to see is more variation with the responses, the return of stat and skill checks for certain dialogue options (I don't see why the current system cant support this, the stats are still there and the skills are just hidden in the perks), and maybe ditch the wheel. The writing could of course be improved but the writing could always be improved.

By not working, you of course mean not working by your standards and not meeting your criteria. Neither of which I'm not really familiar with since all I get from you is that "they didn't do anything so they are better off gone". As for Bethesda not finding solutions, that's more than likely because they didn't want to go that way with what they tried to do, not that they couldn't find any solutions because even someone with only barebones understanding of these things can come with some basic things on how to push these things forward.

I've heard that argument so many times, for so many different things, yet all the proposed solutions for those things always end up having just as many glaring holes as the past system did.

So what?

Yes

It does, but I suspect they don't do it for the same reasons I would guess they never did non-speech based speech checks in TES, at least not since before Morrowind. I would guess its also the same reason they have never done things like STR requirements for guns/swords in Fallout 3/4/Skyrim.

The more things you stack onto a singular system, such as weapon efficiency from the sword/gun example, the more you end up devaluing all the stats involved. In a case where you have just a 1-100 weapon skill that determines how well a weapon works, each 1 level of skill increase gives a 1% increase to weapon efficiency, since its the only thing that determines weapon efficiency. When you add STR into the mix, now each point adds only .5% because now you need both 100 skill level, and 100 STR.(assuming we are talking about a end game gun/sword that needs 100 in each to work with 100% efficiency. Obviously the ratio will be different if you only need like 75 in STR, but 100 in the weapon skill).

The speech skill is largely the same way, the more stats you add into the "effect speech checks" category, the more you devalue the speech skill, or in this case the charisma stat + its perks, by making it increasingly less the factor that determines if a speech check is successful or not. To make matters worse, those perks/stats do their own things on top of helping you pass speech checks, so that only further makes them more valuable then the speech skill overall. The speech skill just helps you with speech checks, but these others stats/perks do their own stat/perk stuff, on top of helping you pass a number of speech checks.

RPGs in general have had people complaining that skills/stats/perks aren't powerful enough, or that skill/stat/perk increases weren't powerful enough. In response to this, game devs have largely been removing this stacking redundancy, and keeping each thing in its own box, so that each thing will be able to get the maximum power it could, and each increase to that thing means the most it could, since its the only thing that does w/e it does, in order to make each stat/stat increase.

They could add in other stat checks, but they don't because those stats do their own things already, and the speech skill(Skyrim), or Charisa(Fo4) already exist to do those things. This is also evident in things like Dragon Age, where the coercion skill is basically the only thing that matters in speech checks, and in Mass Effect where paragon/renegade score is really the only thing that matters for speech checks.

Obviously there are some exclusions, when theres just NO logical means to explain how a speech skill would pass the check, such as the case of the int checks for fixing the electronics on the USS Constitution, but those are usually kept to as much of a minimum as possible to maintain the charisma stat in a high powered state.

It makes that entire line of argument entirely bunk because in all cases where theres some "obvious solution" that " anyone with barebones understanding of these thing" always end up being just as bad as it was before which isn't a progression forward, its just turning the wheel in the mud.

That kind of argument is nothing more then misplaced arrogance that you can somehow do better then people who have been doing it for 20+ years.

I don't think you understood what I was arguing about. But what ever. Rock'n roll.

I think you guys who are constantly badmouthing Bethesda should be required to make Fallout 5, have your paychecks garnished if you don't meet deliver dates or don't cover your production costs . . . see if you really know what you are talking about or not *winkz*

I agree with the dialogue system and the voiced protagonist. I like what BGS is doing. Of course there's room for improvement but I think they are doing just great.

If Obsidian ever got Fallout I guess I'd have one less game series to follow. Pity under BGS its become my 2nd favorite franchise.

Maybe somewhen after you finally realize the difference between criticism and badmouthing.

At last no change for you as before they got the franchise.

Been a while since the last one of these.

hmmmmmm for me is just the dialogue system, really i dont have a problem with the Dialogue Wheel ( i dont get why u wont understand why u want to said from a shorter line, i play ME and DA like that with 0 problems), i will just add more options and speak checks.

Everything else for me, from leveling system, replaying skill for perks, crafting, Settlements, the new environment, is a improve over 3 and NV by far.

I love this. This is what fallout 4 should be not this disgusting disaster mess wee halft to suffer with everyday our lives now. so sad

Todd wgent in this new direction & fans eat up this garbage & defeated everyday. I want everything here & three dog back, 200 more

perks 12 cities 50 unique towns & waky locations, 1950's _ 1920's classic music jeepers creeperds by ethal waters, henry hall & on the moon DLC

Louis Armstrong version towns hit by big nuclear boms that look like this http://getwallpapers.pw/wallpapers/l/1920x1080/26/post_apocalyptic_radioactive_artwork_apocalyptic_s_t_a_l_k_e_r_birds_1920x1080_25684.jpg & better guns like pp7 or Chinese assult rifle & creative advanced chrome institute modern guns. Alien guns, perks & locations too & 22% Enclave

u know what i find fun.???. that no meter how much "fans" QQ about it, Bethesda keep making successful game, and there is the problem. Since the game is a success their new direction is working, and ppl keep playing and buying their games. (not that the new direction bother me much, for me they just need to improve on some areas only).

Let me give an example of what I would like to see, or something like it.

After you select 'New Game', you are prompted for your character's 'Name', 'Race' (human or ghoul) and 'Gender'.

Your character comes to after having been unconscious for some period of time. You see the remnants of a caravan, of which you are clearly the only survivor.

You are prompted to select the reason you are here, 'Your Background':

• Trader, You are a Trader with the Caravan Company(Faction).


• Mercenary, You were hired to guard the Caravan through a Mercenary Company(Faction).


• Raider, You are one of the perpetrators of the attack and belong to a Raider Clan/Tribe(Faction).


• Scavenger, You are a Wasteland Scavenger who was bartering with the Traders (No Faction).


• BOS Scribe, You were traveling with the Caravan returning to your BOS Chapter(Faction)


• BOS Knight, See Scribe above, You are a new knight, no power armor yet, BOS Chapter(Faction)


• Settler, Child of Atom, The list could go on.

Each choice provides certain bonuses and negatives.

Then you choose your SPECIAL and starting skills.

As in TES each faction has its own faction storyline, independent of the Main Quest, that allows the player to advance in those factions. The Player can join other compatible factions or defect, if they meet the requirements for those factions. Appropriate radiant quests would be ok, but should not be used as a crutch. There should be additional short story lines that can be followed in each settlement. There should be numerous dungeon like locations to explore.

The Main Quest, would not start immediately and would be something that develops organically within the game world. It's first quest could be triggered by the Player reaching a certain level or attaining a certain rank in their faction, but the Player should have the choice to ignore it without penalty to gameplay beyond the obvious.

And please no more voiced protagonist.

Im so furious about this new direction if i was the boss id fire everyone & hire Obsidian team ill fire

Todd Howard too sorry Todd. Im so angry with Todds choices OMG i hate life because of this. He

ruined everything EVERYTHING about What THIS title stands for even though i knew fallout 4 gonna

svck. Everything else dose in 2015 _ 2016 so far

Whoever perfects this program for video games is going to make a TON of money.

well they really didnt ruin anything, they just change the game holding some key items from the original, I mean if we want to go "technical" not even NV was close to what Fallout 1 or 2 was.

I mean i really can live with this new direction bc im a fan of the Elder Scroll series, and when i see the leveling system on Fallout 4 and see a similar System on Skyrim. (with some changes of curse).

My BIGGEST complain will be dialogue and no the wheel like ppl like to complain. Since i play ME and DA with this type of wheel so i dont have issues understanding what they want to say. What i miss is more options like speak checks or more info, like DA I have.

That can be easily fix. So if they improve that im happy about it.

Everything else on the game dont undermine the "more RPG or less RPG" for me. The leveling system from skill to perk is for me the same, since both system allow me to become god. True be told the new one at least make me work harder to become god.

When it come down to story, really NV story was interesting, but for me been able to "recruit" every faction (even if those faction hate each other) and work together dont make much sence if isnt base on a good plot like DAO. So for me the plot on Fallout 4 is more appealing since i like that im force to choose one of 4 factions. And there is no way to save everything ( i hate that option, that why i love DA I so much)

The problem with the new system is that you don′t become "god" because you skilled good, you become god when one of the legendary enemies drops a weapon that turns you into. At the moment one of these weapons drop all weapon related skills get obosolete as the weapon still works godlike even without put any point into these skills. In NV these weapons simply did not exist, some uniques where better but at last the skills and perks where the balancing factors and not the weapon itself.