You cannot walk away. You can't. That's the problem. Going into Markarth for the first time, you have absolutely no idea what you're getting into by choosing to help the guy in front of the abandoned house. You're presented with the option to be a good guy, so players who wish to do good are likely going to help him. That's when you get stuck in the house and are forced to defend yourself by killing the guy. But whatever, that's fine. He attacked us, right? We can just accept the fact that Bethesda is throwing absurd curve balls at us like that.

However.. you're then told someone is basically locked up somewhere, so what do you do? Maybe you want to make up for killing the guy before? So you go to rescue the man, despite the fact that Molag Bal pretty much wants to torture him. And hey, even if you tell him that upon releasing him, off he goes to visit Molag Bal's shrine. Yeah, I'm a good guy and I'm going to let someone walk to their death and simply look the other way, right? Because that's all Bethesda is allowing me to do. Your only two options are to be directly evil or indirectly evil.

You're the Dragonborn. You're favored by Akatosh. You actually possess an Elder Scroll at one point in time. You slay dragons and absorb their souls, granting you unfathomable power.

.. but you can't save one person? You can't go against the wishes of Molag Bal? You're saving the entire [censored] plane of existence, and yet you can't defeat one Daedric prince? Or at least rescue a mortal from his evil clutches? Bethesda is basically telling you you're Superman throughout the entire game, yet denying you that power in quite a few situations, molding you into Doctor Doom.

I've seen countless people who've been put into situations like that through the entire game. They wish to do good, but only end up getting killed or failing miserably. But hey, we aren't them. We're the main character, so why are we being subjected to all the same things?

Congratulations, you have just been welcomed into Bethesda.

You are beginning to realize that you're in a world where maybe you should think things through instead of diving in.

You are being implored by a stranger to enter somewhere called the "House of Horrors" and, true to his name, you are emotionally r.aped by Molag Bal, the King of R.ape (official canon name).

You got stuck in a horrible situation, where Molag Bal was playing the part of Jigsaw. You had a good option, it was death. There is no problem with the fact that you got in way over your head, and theo nly "good" option is to roll over and take it.

You didn't think you were being a good guy, you thought there was a quest reward. Some stranger asked you to go in and kill a bunch of Daedra worshipers, you pulled out your knife to storm a house because some random joe blow religious zealot asked you to. And you got more than you bargained for.

There's nothing absurd about it. You did the right thing, role-playing your paladin to help a guy out, and walked right into a trap that forced ... gasp! ... moral ambiguity. Just like you see everywhere else in the world.

I don't see the problem. The guy is an idiot. You freed him, and now he's going to use that freedom to go do something you disapprove of. So what are you going to do about it? Kill him? Hog tie him? Convert him from 50 years of worshiping Daedra with a few well-placed Speech checks?

And again - you absolutely do not have to talk him into going back to the shrine. That was your choice. Which way did you do it, by the way? Did you lie and say you were a servant of Boethiah? Did you intimidate him with the power of Molag Bal? Did you simply bribe him to go back? Or did you kill all his captors, set him free, and walk away like a nice guy might have?

Come to think of it, how do you feel about killing a dozen people you knew nothing about to rescue an evil http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Boethiah worshiper? Who told you you had to do that? Oh right, your pal Molag Bal.

Sure you can. Just ... I don't know ... stop doing every single thing he tells you to do. When you obey his every command, you're playing into his hands. Surprise!

Believe it or not, sometimes even Superman stories have shades of grey. And Superman never beat up Satan that I ever heard of.

So you see a world brimming over with tragedy and ambiguity, yet you expect everything to be all Hello Kitty just for your character? News flash: your character lives in this world, not above it. It doesn't matter how much bonus damage your dragon sword does; bad stuff can happen to you (yes, and because of you) just like everybody else.

Can I also just point out (sorry if this has been pretty much said before) that the problem I have with the Molag Bal quest is that there is no dialogue to opt out of doing his bidding, yet there is with the Mehrunes Dagon quest. You see that's the thing about saying "just don't finish the quest", it shouldn't come to that. With the Dagon quest, you can opt out of killing the chap, the result being you don't get the Razor...can you really say Bethesda couldn't do the same thing with the Molag Bal one? It's Bethesda that has decided not to give us an option, there's nothing more to it...

Actually, I'm an AARP eligible female, but thanks for the compliment.

Yes. I really can.

You didn't have to bring the priest all the way back to Molag Bal's shrine, where Molag Bal told you what was going to happen to him.

What, did you think the King of R.ape was pulling your leg and was really going to throw out a bunch of confetti and yell "SURPRISE!" then let the priest go?

He told you to go fetch the priest, and you went and fetched the priest. What?

Again, I agree that more options is always better and completing quests is a good thing. All I am contending is that the game never forces you to be evil, as the OP and others claim.



Cheerfully corrected

Not the point I was making. I should've added last time, I'm talking about the gamer having to stop the quest, and not the character. You're forgetting (or I am ) that it is the character that corrupts the priest, not Molag Bal, and there is no 'in-game' way to opt out of it...unlike the Mehrunes Dagon quest.

Why should there be? Molag Bal has no wiggle room with him like Mehrunes Dagon does. Those of us that have been playing Elder Scrolls since at least Morrowind know full well that he's Jigsaw with a spiked [censored].

Your only options are to avoid him, or ignore him and hope he goes away - just like the quest says. You are literally dealing with a devil of sodomy, deceit, and torture, with no hyperbole or exaggeration.

me i ignore the main quest almost all the time for months on end.

I think there should be an option with any Daedra shrine quest to change your mind, tell the Daedric prince to shove it and make a run for it. Resulting in closing the quest permanently with a quest failed notification. The game leaving quests open like that is a form of hand holding really, in case the player changes their minds.

Of course it would be nice if the prince sent his minions after you.

Well, I agree with QSA that it would be nice to be able to get the quest out of our journal without breaking character. I consider this more of a UI problem than a quest design problem though.

Again, a folder for "Quests I Never Intend to Proceed With" would be ideal. The ability to drop quests would be OK too. A more "in-game" option, such as a simple dialogue option like, "Screw you, Molag Bal! I'm out of here! " would also be welcome.

Edit: ninjad by ladyhawke.

This is what I mean. Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon quests, although starting very differently, in a way converge: they both (Mol and Meh) ask you to 'do' something to someone else. With Molag Bal, it is to use the mace to corrupt the person; with Mehrunes Dagon, it's to kill the person. But whereas your character has the option to refuse Dagon, with Molag Bal, the character can't (the player can, but the character can't). why could the character not just say no. As far as I'm aware, Molag Bal isn't controlling the character, your character is free to drop the mace...but the game doesn't give you the option.

I'll add this to my list of stupid complaints.

I have been searching the internet for information on different followers you can obtain, and I have found a solution to my roleplaying problem with Boethiah's Quest. I should be able to complete it now with a morally sound approach; all I have to do his sacrifice a follower of Malacath, because "The Cursed Tribe" questline does not have such intense dilemmas attached.

This newly augmented background story of my character should explain everything...


Backstory:

During the evening of one Morndas, Haakon's parents were murdered in front of him south of the pale
pass. A group of assassins composed of Orisimer ambushed them at their camp. Haakon and his father
killed many of the Orcs, but once his father was overwhelmed and defeated, they completely ignored
Haakon and retreated, taking the corpse of his father with them.

Haakon gave chase over the Jerall Mountains, but he could only manage to catch one wounded Orc.
Cornering the orc against a cliff face, Haakon interrogated him for information, but could only glean
from the pathetic rabble of words that they were in league with a Dark elf, and the Orcs were Malacath
worshippers from Skyrim. The orc also managed to say that their mission was to obtain the armor worn
by his father, but upon hearing this Haakon gave out a shout in rage. The Orc fell to the ground in a
lifeless heap.

Haakon knew that the only one who could be responsible for these events was none other than Boethiah.
She had sent someone to claim the Ebony Mail as their own through subterfuge. Haakon's Father had
obtained the armor while ruining the plans of Boethiah and several other Daedric Princes. He killed her
champion in Cyrodill, while failing to defend his friend and mentor, Adamantus. So now, Boethiah has
been sending agents after his family to retrieve what was originally hers ever since, and this time,
she succeeded.

Haakon doesn't know how this dark elf was able to decieve the followers of Malacath into doing his
bidding, but he will turn the tables on this new Champion of Boethiah by his own means of subterfuge,
even if he has to decieve Boethiah herself into relinquishing his whereabouts.

lol telling the Daedric princes to shove it?hello they are gods! IF someone could actually do that,I'm sure the daedric princes would gladly find a way to get you killed in a horrible way. But even if that option was in game people would complain so...it's not worth bothering to discuss any farther . If you think daedras are too evil,then DON'T visit their shrines.

I'm pretty sure if you don't do what the daedric lord is telling you, you have to fight them

That's what my Skyrim game guide says anyways, so you have a choice

Except you can tell Mehrunes Dagon to...

well that's because Dagon doesn't mind as much. I'm sure molag would never tolerate this and you'd suffer the same fate as the priest if you tried to trick him,so to speak

This game is so grey that it makes it pretty difficuly to be good. Sometimes, you have to stop and think about what's going on before you act.

I ran into this during "In My Time Of Need".

I knew what to do after talking to enough people and taking the information into consideration.

Thinking about the Molag Bal quest some more on the way home, I asked myself, "OK, say I'm a paladin. What is my ideal outcome for the evil Botethiah worshiper who's imprisoned outside of town?"

So I put myself in the position of Markath's Jarl upon learning that a Boethiah devotee was in my city. Here's how that went:

"What? A daedra worshiper in my city? One who follows the Prince of assassination, subterfuge, and criminal government overthrow? Within our very walls?

"I cannot allow this! He must not remain here!

"Since he has committed no overt crime, death is too severe a punishment. Therefore, I banish him!

"But his kind is subtle and crafty, and without further sanction he or his friends may return to wreak havoc upon me.

"Therefore I decree that he shall be taken from this place, and imprisoned under a strong guard elsewhere, and allowed no visitors, until such a time as I may deem he is no longer a threat to my people."

Maybe he wouldn't have picked the Forsworn as the jailers, but still ... it's not at all a stretch to imagine that the forces of Lawful Good would have liked things pretty well just as they were.

Just a thought.

Actually a paladin in the Molag Bal quest allows himself to be killed so the innocent can escape.

Many of the posts here seem to be either ill-informed or even incorrect. This renders a lot of the rhetoric valueless. Some of the advice about questing in general and attitudes for role-playing in general are, however, informative and helpful.

As forthe specific quest which engendered most of this discussion, it appears that many posters either have not played it, chose one option and therefor were not aware of the consequnces of others or have forgotten certain particulars. to refresh everyone's memory, refer to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_House_of_Horrors The section of the Wiki article having the greatest bearing on this discussion is:

"The Daedric prince is very unhappy with the fate of his weapon, and commands you to find the priest and bring him to the altar so Molag Bal can force him to submit. You can either ask him if he wants revenge, or demand to be released. The first option grants you a promise of a reward and involvement in the scheme, while the second does not. Either choice leads to your release, and Molag Bal permits you to leave the house."

The article also contains several warnings regarding the consequences of the quest.

Herewith some irreverent musings on questing in Skyrim:

Q. Is it required in Skyrim to complete quests in your Journal?

A. No. It is not even required to complete the Main Quest. You can continue to play until your screen withers and dies of old age without completing any quest—of course you will miss out on a lot the game has to offer.

Q. Is it possible to start a quest for a Daedric Lord without knowing it?

A. Yes. there are at least two that I can think of.

Q. If I get to a point in a quest where my options are limited to doing things my character doesn't want to do, must I do them anyway?

A. No. If there is no option within the quest dialogs to decline or refuse and end the quest, your only option is to walk away.

Q. Many of the quests don't offer any real choice (or any choice I like.)

A. I don't like peanut butter and banana sandwiches. i don't eat them.

Q. But if I walk away, won't the quest stay in my Journal, taunting me, telling me to finish it?

A. Yes. But there will always be a quest or two in your Journal. Some are interdependent and some are open-ended and never end. You can always tell yourself you'll get to it 'later.' besides, you never did everything your mother told you to do. Why so much angst about a game?

Uh, you do have a choice. It's called not doing the quest?
Why would a white knight type character do a daedric quest for an absurdly evil being in the first place? Therein lies your choice.

How is picking up a flower that there's loads of and won't change anything evil?