I've been to both Solitude and Windhelm and have talked to several people, but I can't really make a decision on which faction I want to join, mainly because I don't really understand what the war is all about. Can someone explain to me the whole story (without spoilers) that will help me have a better understanding on the um, standing of each faction? I want to know what each faction stands for, what they believe in, what their goals are etc etc. I'm new to Tamriel and the Elder Scrolls games so, that's why I'm having trouble following what's going on.

Ulfric wants power for himself because he personally didn't think the king was a good king, so he killed him in a duel. Ulfric has a legacy of being power hungry and ruthless. Wait till you learn of the Markarth Incident. Ulfric believes himself to be the true high king, and likes Talos. He doesn't want to bow to any elves, like the Thalmor.

Stormcloaks
-believe in Talos and worship him
-believe only nords should be in skyrim

Imperials
-banned Talos worship
-allied with Thalmor(annoying elf race)

anything beyond this is still a little foggy. Trying to decide which side to take as well.

the thalmor (high and wood elves) have lead war against the empire. they forced them not to worship talos anymore cause elves dont like humans that become gods. this prohibition also gets introduced in skyrim which is part of the empire. but skyrim is also home to tiber septim who became talos, so he is their major god. being forbidden to worship their major god is something many people dont like (stormcloaks) and they conflict with people who think the benefits of the empire are worth this sacrifice (imperials).

its all in the book "the great war"

I'm having trouble keeping track of the factions (names, members, beliefs) and their history as well. Thanks for admitting it... sometimes I thought I must be the only idiot who couldn't keep up.

Sometimes I'm not sure if two different names are referring to the same faction, or really are distinct, or one was a precursor, etc.

Here's how it started.

During the war with the elves, the Forsworn conquered Markarth. Upon returning, Markarth lacked the forces to take it back. To gather an army, Markarth, or perhaps the Empire, promised Ulfric and his men free worship of Talos. They pushed the Forsworn back out of Markarth, even capturing their leader.

Then were subsequently arrested for violating the treaty with the Aldmeri Dominion by worshiping Talos. They served their sentence and were released. Ulfric returned to Windhelm to find his father dead and he was placed on its throne. Believing his people to be suffering under the Empire, he rode to Solitude, challenged the High King to a duel, shouted at him with the voice, and stabbed him.

This is the public story of the rebellion. The question before you is the cause before him is sufficient. If his claim is rightful. Perhaps you consider the duel dishonorable due to the use of the voice. Perhaps you believe the old ways are not to be honored. Perhaps you think the betrayal of Ulfric and his men after doing their duty was the lesser of two evils. Or maybe you suspect something more nefarious. Or maybe, just maybe, you hate the Empire and believe it to be a corrupt and crumbling mockery of what the Septims built. That it is without honor. And it is too weak to continue as it is.

the empire was attacked by the tholmir the annoying elf race as someone said before
to save the empire, the emperor signed a treaty, in this they banned talos worship
Nords got mad bro

ulfric dueled the high king and won, historically this means he would be king, or the moot ( which is basically all the jarls vote on next king) would decide.

ulfric wants the splinter from the empire

imperials don't want the to happen

everyone does sneaky stuff to gain an advantage if they can so honestly pick,
Empire unification

skyrim independence

there was a war between the elves and the humans. The imperial city was ravaged, and the empire eventually decided to call for peace.

The peace treaty was called white gold concordant i think. It outlined the ban on talos worship mainly because the elves saw themselves as a superior race to humans and they thought that Talos does not belong to the nine divines because he was a human-who-became-god. The empire was bound to accept, and this angered some talos worshipers and nords who took this as a sign of treachery.
Ulfric stormcloak used this to begin his so called stormcloak rebellion (after killing the king in the a manner to show that the new king was weak). You can find similarities between Adolf Hitler and ulfric

Basically every side has thier own faults in this matter and its up to you to choice whos more "right" then rest.

Reminds me of that one south park episode were they had to choose between a deuce bag and a crap sandwich. That's politics

To put simply:

The Empire:
- Got their ass handed by the Thalmor
- It was either ban Talos or die for 'em, so they chose the first

The Stormcloaks:
- Pissed off since Talos is their main god. Kinda like if Jesus is banned in America by the Russians
- Wants to be free from the Empire, so they can worship Talos again

As for others:
Ulfric may very well have his own agenda, but the driving force of the Stormcloaks is really just Talos. Give 'em Talos back, and Ulfric is done for.
The Empire may need the time to recover, but they still ban Talos, their freaking founder. Kinda like if the Russians ban George Washington. Think about it for a second.

the thing is that the game starts with the empire about to kill you, and a rebel helps save you from the marauding dragon
that makes it somewhat difficult to justify not joining the stormcloaks if one is planning to take part in the war-at least for me

Ok, I think I have a better understanding now. I have one question though. Was it part of the treaty to allow elves and other races to live in Skyrim? I remember Ulfric saying something like "we came back to our country to see strangers with familiar faces" or something. Are the stormcloaks fighting to ban the other races from living in Skyrim as well? Were they outlawed before?

That's not exactly true. The CAPTAIN wants your head chopped off, the soldier with the list would let you live because you're not a stormcloak but he has to follow the orders. After the dragon comes, he tries to help you and there's a point when you have to decide to either go with the rebel guy or that soldier. If you choose to go with the soldier then the story of your escape is a little bit different.

Anyways, as I see it, there's no good or evil side. Both sides have valid reasons to fight and both sides have flaws and characters with questionable intentions.

There are books in Skyrim which tell you alot about everything mentioned in previous posts. Just keep your eyes open for books and certain titles and form you own opinion on what's happening

"Strangers with familiar faces" are the Imperials.

Nords and Imperials fought side by side against the Thalmor in the great war and worshipped Talos together.

But now when Ulfric is released the Imperials are in league with the Thalmor and banned Talos.

The Empire is trying as hard as possible to save Skyrim from the evil Thalmor. To do so they had to make a small concession.

The Stormcloaks don't understand that sacrifices had to be made to have peace and not have all Skyrim ravaged by those horrible buggers.

They were incredibly ungrateful and rose up against the very people trying to help them, destabilising the whole place and jeopardising what the Empire was working towards.

Anyway this is the interpretation you would take if you were siding with the Imperials.

If you were siding with the Stormcloaks, you would be thinking that Talos is way too important to concede, and if necessary, every citizen in Skyrim should fight the Thalmor to the death to preserve him, even if it means the ruination of their country.

it is mainly a matter of "principle more important than survival?". principle: stormcloak, survival: empire. Even if by example ulfric or tullius have ulterior motives it's mostly irrelevant since you don't know it at the time you have to choose. Of course that's not entirely true, I mean, a Nord can think his country is invincible at least defensively speaking (not a lot of people have been able to successfully invade Russia in the real world) so he might think he has no reason not to claim skyrim's independence after the Empire betrayal. Of course that means leaving the empire so weakened it will probably be destroyed by the Thalmor but even if he has scruples, he can consider the survival choice of the imperials was first made for their own survival, not skyrim's one.

Ok, so I have some more questions and I'm also going to try to explain what I understand, so correct me if I'm wrong.


1. Skyrim is the home of the Nords and Cyrrodil (spelling?) is the home of the imperials. Before the imperials took over, who was governing the nords? Was it just the jarls and the high king? Or were the imperials always there? Has Skyrim always been part of the empire? After the great war, did the imperials just waltz into skyrim and assume command over skyrim without anyone's approval or without even anyone asking for their help? Is that what happened?

2. Was the great war only between the imperials and the admeri (?) dominion or were the nords and skyrim involved as well?

3. So, The admeri dominion were winning the war and told the nords and imperials that the only way they would lay off is if they signed the white cord concordot (?) or whatever which bans the worship of talos. Then, the imperials agreed to it, thus selling out their own people's tradition, culture, and history but still, justly so, so that the great war could end and that the people of tamriel wouldn't die. But where were the nords when the imperials agreed? Didn't the nords have a say in it?

4. So, after the nords found out about the treaty, they were pissed at the imperials because they sold out talos who is actually the founder of the imperial empire. Ulfric Stormcloak wanted to prove that the imperial army was weak, so he killed the leader of the imperials Tyrogg in a fair duel. Despite this, the imperials still label it as "murder" and even execute the guard who let Ulfric go. Is this correct?

5. There was one point (the markarth incident) when the imperials wanted to take back Markarth from somebody (the forswarn?) so they asked the nords for help. In exchange, they permitted worship of talos, but they did this without a heads up to the elves. But it was not like they did it on purpose to set them up right? I remember the jarl of markarth saying that "they were hoping that the elves wouldn't find out." but ulfric and the nords shouldn't be pissed about this, because they must have known that there was a risk of the elves finding out. Unless, the imperials lied and told them that they would safe? Well anyway, they were jailed. And when ulfric got out, he found his father (the previous jarl of windhelm) dead and then the people asked ulfric to become the new jarl, and this sparked his anger towards the imperials at which point he declared war on them. Is this correct?

1The empire's been there since it was founded though civil wars are fairly common with the nords 2 The nords where part of the empire at that time 3 Pretty much though i don't think the nords had a say in it 4 Toryyg was the nord high king but from what i hear ineffective by nord standards the duel was fair and legal though 5 Yeah that's the impression i got though i don't think the imperials betrayed them.

This is actually pretty complicated, so I'll do my best to hit all the main points.

All of Tamriel was under Cyrodilic control prior to the Oblivion crisis. Think of the Imperials as sort of like the Roman Empire, and Tamriel as most of Europe. The Imperials largely didn't install Imperial governors, however, letting most of the provinces have a large degree of self-rule, as long as they followed Imperial laws, paid Imperial taxes, etc. Thus, the Jarls of Skyrim remained Jarls, just Jarls loyal to the Empire. Being part of the Empire was, by and large, good for everybody - it was peace and prosperity for all, so nobody really had any issues with the status quo.

The Oblivion crisis severely weakened the Empire, and also killed off the "true" line of Emperors, the Septims. Meanwhile, the Oblivion crisis also allowed the Thalmor to come to power on Summerset Isle, home of the High Elves. The Thalmor are, essentially, elven supremacists, and believe Tamriel should (once again) be under elven rule. They were able to annex Valenwood after a pro-Aldmeri coup, and were also able to take Elswyr for reasons I won't go into, that have a lot to do with the Khajit's relationship to Nirn's moons.

Then they essentially strolled up to the Imperials with a list of demands, among them the end of Talos worship throughout the Empire, the ceding of southern Hammerfall (home of the Redguards) to the Aldmeri Dominion, and other things of that sort. They knew the Empire wouldn't agree to the demands, and they knew they could take the Empire in a war.

The Imperials, predictably, did not accept the demands, and so the Aldmeri Dominion invaded Cyrodil and Hammerfall with two separate armies. Hammerfall was the real target, aiming to capture the southern half of the province that they demanded from the Imperials, but when the diversionary army invading Cyrodil was able to make it all the way to the gates of the Imperial City, they concluded that the Empire was weaker than they thought, and that they could actually conquer Cyrodil right off the bat, without needing to take out all of its supporting provinces first. Thus, they shifted their focus to the siege of the Imperial City, concentrating most of their forces in Tamriel there. The Empire did the same, more or less abandoning Hammerfall and the Redguards.

The Aldmeri were successful in capturing the Imperial City, but not the Emperor, who fought his way out with at least one of the Legions. Together with the Legion returning from Hammerfall and a Legion composed mostly of Nords coming down from Skyrim, the Emperor was able to encircle the Aldmeri army and destroy it, wiping out the vast majority of Aldmeri military power in Tamriel. This is what obliged the Aldmeri Dominion to sign the White-Gold Concordat; they got everything they demanded prior to the start of the war, including the ceding of the southern half of Hammerfall and the ban on Talos worship. The Empire signed it because they needed breathing room to recover their strength; they lost over half their Legions in the war, and a fresh Aldmeri invasion - which the elves were fully capable of - would in all likelihood completely overrun Tamriel. The Redguards of Hammerfall outright refused the terms of the Concordat, vowing to keep fighting, which forced the Empire to relinquish its claim on the province; if they kept it, the Redguards' actions would be a violation of the Concordat, giving the Dominion a perfect excuse to invade all over again. The Redguards view this as total abandonment by the Empire, and are understandably upset about it - especially as they fought the Thalmor for five more years afterwards, finally managing to battle them to a standstill and an ultimate truce.

So, that's where we stand as Skyrim starts. If the Empire hopes to win against the all-but-guaranteed next war against the Aldmeri Dominion, it needs the Nords' military strength to do it. The Nords who support the Stormcloaks view the Empire as a dying beast, one which needs the Nords far more than the Nords need it - needing their treasure, their manpower, their trade, but providing little in return anymore, obliging them to give up their traditional religion and allow hated elves to move freely amongst them, kidnapping and torturing their populace. They point to Hammerfall as an example of a province being capable of standing on its own against the Aldmeri. The people who support the Empire, meanwhile, believes that a recovered Empire still provides the best chance to eventually defeat the Thalmor, but that the Empire can't recover if it loses Skyrim.

Imperials:

- Currently trying to keep Skyrim in the empire like it always has been and stop the stormcloak rebellion
- Agreed to the banning of Talos worship law, even though if you talk to alot of the imperians at times it is mentioned they do not like this.

Stormcloaks:

- Racist. 'Nuff Said.

The Point is, imperials are better.

Thanks so much for such a thorough (and really well-written!) explanation of the lead-up history. Very much appreciated!

I still have no idea who to side with though as both sides are valid and have right and wrong agendas. But I really do hate Ulfric, he's such a jerk.

Have any other provinces seceded from the Empire? I thought I read that Black Marsh had, but I'm a little fuzzy...

Cracking post Seaward, thanks.

The Redguards war against the Thalmor is an epic war movie playing in my mind. There may or may not be a savage Orc batallion that roves the countryside slaughtering High-Elves by the hundreds, contributing to this mental awesomeness.

Also curved swords.

CURVED. SWORDS.

Stormcloaks:
Want to fight the Thalmor sooner rather than later.
Want a stong king on the throne.
Less open to other races.
Sees the Empire as weak since they agreed to enter a treaty.
Sees the banning of Talos worship as blasphemy and weakness.

Empire:
Want to keep whats left of the Empire together s they can defeat the Thalmor, and believe that if the Empire is splitted the Thalmor will win.
Don't like to have Talos banned, but see it as an necessety that will(most likely be corrected once the Thalmor are destroyed).
Sees Ulfrik as a powerhungry rebel that is stirring up the people of Skyrim and spilling its blood for the sake of defying the Thalmor prematurely.
Sees themselves as the only thing keeping the Thalmor from completely overrunning Skyrim.
Believes that the Empire must be kept together since it is still the Talos Empire, even if they temporary cannot worhip him.

Personally I support the Empire, mainly because of the Thalmor.