What a lot of single player RPGs have problems with is having a good econemy. Its hard to not have that point where you simply have all this cash and nothing to spend it on. I think the solution to this problem is not adding in stupidly expensive items that require a massive grind but rather adding in services that a player has to keep paying for that they will always need or want. For example take Fallout 3. At the start the econemy is perfect but as soon as the player can detoxify themselves for free, remove their own rads for free and repair their own weapons to good quality a massive build up of caps happens which then leads to a massive build up of Stimpacks, RadAway and Ammo. This build up of caps is due to having nothing to spend your money on. Everything you used to pay for can now be done for free once you own a house.

A good way to improve the econemy from Fallout 3 is to add services that do not become outdated. Such as-
a. Ferry systems like the one to Point Lookout which costs 350 caps.
b. Services that a player cannot do themselves for free.
c. Novelty/Fun services such as mini-games (I assume they are coming in FNV).
d. Bills? I assume there will be housing, what about having to pay a fee each week to have clean running water, lights or a butler there.

There needs to be something in the game that you can always spend your cash on alongside a drain thats always going to be happening. I know the Casinos are going to be in FNV but its not going to prevent that end game where you have buckets of caps with nothing to spend it on. The end game will still occur as you will just be spending money to make money which will then again be spent to make more money.

Thoughts, opinions and comments welcome.

......I'm honestly having a hard time contemplating this

I think I'd have to play FNV before I can make a good judgement
This is one of those things for me where its hard to think about it
but easier if I just experience it

I know that is one thing I hated in Fallout 3. I ended up using food because I had so much and I stopped scavenging and selling stuff because I had too much money and weapons. I also wish the ammo was harder to find. I like having to sparingly use my ammo instead of ending up with so much I randomly shoot things.

I do like the idea, but no matter what your caps will still build up. The idea of yours does give me the idea of having to pay a monthly rental fee for your home. 1000 caps or so every month, and if you don't pay within a week, you are kicked out.

Hopefully, the new gambling system within the game will allow for a fluctuation in the number of caps in your inventory. Ran into that cap overload also in FO3.

The best way to make the economy better is to limit the availability possible currencies and balance out the prices of supplies. Maybe even controlling the traders so that higher level loot requires a higher level merchant that, within the gameworld, has the potential to even buy the the X from you and sell it forward with the customers being that of the settlement, and handling it so that a doctor, for example, isn't giving as good prices from weaponry (if accepting them at all as payment) than with drugs - and further on, denying commerce should the player be on the wrong side of the merchants faction, or the merchant individually. The main thing, though, would be to control the amount of available currencies and tradeable items - and the barter skills impact on prices.

Oh, what about a conversion system? Like, 2 NCR dollars = 1 cap, for example.

There is an exchange rate for the caps, NCR dollars and Legion money already.

Maybe I did something wrong, but I didn't have a huge abundance of caps in F3. I mean, I didn't ever grind for it, just accumulated over time. Even when I bought things for my house, I waited until I had enough things to sell to get all my caps back before they disappeared. Truthfully, I held on to a lot of stuff in my house storage, but still...

Theres always a way to end up with a large amount of caps. Adding in services you have to continually use won't change that.

vanilla fo3 the merchants didn't run out of money..
there is a mod that deducted the money, when you sold them stuff.
greatly limiting the amount you can get.
that mixed with doctors not buying guns and other non doctor stuff, and bars not buy misc junk, should provide a balanced economy.
also making sure that when vendors do replenish they don't start with 10000 caps.... more like 250 (or an equivalent with other currencies)

You have a pretty good idea there. I'm about to play Fallout 3 one more time with some mods that will give me the experience of NV's hardcoe mode. I'm not going to buy the home infirmary. One of the mods I'll be using makes stimpak's no longer heal crippled limbs, so I'll have to visit doctors.

My idea that you would have to buy a house, which would be very expensive, not free like in F3. Until then you either sleep in abandoned buildings, common houses or rent a room from a casino. There could be apartments to rent, which you will get locked out of if you don't pay your rent after a certain amount of time. When you get locked out, you have to go see the landlord and pay the rent before being let back in.

In Fallout 3, any container was safe to store your loot in, no one would bother it and it didn't disappear. That shouldn't be right. Just like I would loot every container I found, why doesn't anyone else loot your stuff stored in an unowned, random container? You can still store your stuff in an unowned container, but have a chance that it will get stolen. If you want a safe place to keep your stuff, you put it in your apartment/house or rent a safe from some place for a daily fee. When you visit your safe, you pay the fee or you don't get your stuff.

Fast travel should be disabled, at least in hardcoe mode, and if you want to get somewhere you walk. If you want to get somewhere fast, have a travel service at each major settlement where you have to pay for safe, fast travel to certain destinations. Add an additional fee if you want to fast travel to a place not on the regular route.

If NV turns out to be too easy with money like F3 was, I hope these ideas will be easy to mod in.

Having bills? What is this, The Sims?

Also, I seldom had money because I abused the repair level of caravaners. Combat armor, CAR, and sniper rifle constant repairs add up after a while.

Got to much money? Start spending then. Alot. Problem solved.

Having a service that you can't learn yourself is just unrealistic unless it involves some kind of specific machinery. I think there's a train you probably have to pay to ride. The thing I like is the multiple currencies. Some stores have better exchange rates and better deals with certain types of money. I just think that it's kind of cool. I doubt it's going to happen, but I think it would also be a little more realistic if certain merchants payed less for certain types of items, like if you tried to sell a gun to an armor shop, they would pay way less than a gun store since they don't deal in guns. That would be more realistic and make you think a little more about where you want to do business.

I agree, what breaks Rpgs for me is Bad economy/loot, I liked Oblivion but the money/loot system brought that game down like a ton of bricks. I would love to see more in depth economy in RPGs, more investing, sink holes, trading (like wasteland equivalents of spice, fur, meat etc). I really like how the economy played out in the beginning of F3, you really had to scraqe for the loot/money/ammo and you got a small taste of better guns with lower durability resulting in limited use. Imo it was perfect! I hope they bring that back in FNV, though they should prolong it because I had more money then I needed at 17 plus. Really.. a simple way to do things is to have individual difficulty sliders for Money, loot and Ammo vs just the hard core mode.

1. Most of the containers WERE'NT safe to store your loot and
2.If you don't like fast travel then don't use it yourself. I like it. I'm all for exploring, but I really don't want to trek through the same places for hours on end.

You are wrong. You can store your loot in any fixed container and it will stay there, untouched, forever. There are a few exceptions, the only one I can think of at the moment is a container near where you travel The Pitt that disappears after you go there the first time, but other than that, just about any fixed container is safe to store stuff in.

The first time I played Fo3, while traveling to Rivet City for the first time, I ran into a mini-gun toting super mutant, and killed him. I wanted to keep the mini-gun because it was the first mini gun I had encountered, but I couldn't carry any more loot. The only container nearby was an ammo crate, which magically was able to hold the mini-gun. I meant to come back and get it, but I got held up doing quests and had found other mini-guns along the way. Way later in the game, I did happen across this place again, which turned out to be a spawning point for the super mutants. I cleared it out, and that mini-gun was still tucked away safe inside that little ammo crate.

I kept stashes all throughout the wasteland, mainly spare weapons and armor to use as repairs so I wouldn't have to go back to my house in Megaton if I needed to repair my equipment. None of my stuff ever disappeared. Before I acquired the Megaton house, I kept stuff in the locker inside the men's restroom.

I'm trying to squeeze in another Fo3 play before NV comes out, and I'm using some mods to make the game harder. I'm not going to take the house in Megaton or Tenpenny Tower, so I'm using random containers to store my stuff. I'm currently using a locker in the Megaton common house, and have taken over an abandoned residence in Grayditch. My stashes of loot have not disappeared.

Money is still too easy to acquire, even with these hardcoe mods. I'm not going to boost my repair skill, and instead I'm relying on vendors and caravans for equipment repair. My character's strength skill is 3, and I'm using an ammo weight mod. This severely limits the amount of loot I can carry. I'm also using a barter mod that increases the buying price of everything by 75%. I'm only at level 4 and I've already got over 1000 caps in my pocket, and still plenty of loot to sell for more. My barter skill is at 14. I haven't invested any skill points in barter, and I've only read one skill book that increased my barter skill.



Go back and read my post. Pay attention to what I said after the sentence you quoted. I didn't say get rid of fast travel, I said disable it in hardcoe mode and replace it with a fast travel system that you have to pay to use. The way the fast travel is in Fo3 is pretty much a cheat. You can travel to any location in a fraction of the time it would take you to actually walk/run there and without running into any enemies along the way. My idea is to have travel agents in each major settlement that you pay that will guarantee you fast travel to any other settlement for a fee. If you want to travel to a destination outside of the travel route, you pay an extra fee. If you can't afford it, you can take your chances and go on foot.

1. Why do people keep asking for this? If we're expected to pay everytime we want to fast travel to a location on the other side of the map, it's going to become a huge money sink. Basically you're going to need to make money in every single location just to offset the cost of travel. Don't forget, you still need food and water too, so better hope you've looted enough or you need to buy that as well. Which isn't a problem since I loot almost everything. I'd love to save some cash for gambling, housing upgrades, and doctors visits when I'm broken. It's not a cheat, since you still need to walk/run to a location and fight your way there the first time anyway before you can fast travel. HC mode is intended to add a little bit of survival to the Fallout experience, not hamper down the game in every realistic way possible. And you know what? I really want to experence the HC mode that the devs are implementing, because I think the ideas they're adding are not only some of the things the fans have been asking for, but also the way it's intended to be played. Making it too real, and forcing the playing to walk everywhere if they cannot afford it, would get very tedious very quickly. Some people just do not have the time at their leisure to play that long to be able to continue travelling to a few places in one sitting.

2. I understand your idea. But something like travel is what the majority of players do a lot of, and unless it's fairly cheap, it's going to become a major goldsink. Remember, the game has an ending, there's only so much time to spend money on gucci things.

Yeah, really. It's a nigh-endless single player game. Sure, scarce resources is a key feature of the beginning and middle game. Once you reach the "end" game (you're near max level, have everything you need, etc)..... it really doesn't matter to me how much stuff I have. Once I have "enough", anything beyond that doesn't really matter. So....... yeah, I didn't really feel like anything needed to be fixed in FO3's economy. /shrug