The one major thing I don't like about Steam.. I don't get gamer points for my Xbox account. Thats what I love about Games for Windows Live.
I was really looking forward to the same experience with this instalment.

No, I can deal with large patches. There's ways of getting them for most games and install them manually that I have the patience for. I'm pissed I can't just install the game and start playing. If you read my post I listed many alternatives of games that require you to register your copy that have no issues. Steam is crap. If they can't compete on par with GFWL for simple product registration and install what good are they? It looks like I'm not the only one having issues with this either. As far as "Buy a different game" I wouldn't have bought this game if I knew it would have been such a pain. I had no problems with Fallout 3 or any of the other Bethesda games out there from Bethesda. With this in mind, what clue would I have had that would have told me what a pain Steam is? And it's not like I can run down to the Kabul EBGames and return it.

Like I said in my original post, Bethesda has just thrown away a decade of goodwill.

This sounds great in theory.. and I do agree that it would be awesome if that was all there was to it... however -


When you purchase a game or any other software product you are purchasing a license for that product...
it belongs to you once you've paid for it... you OWN it.. it's your PROPERTY... that's what the license is for..
the law regarding property rights is a deep subject and something you might want to read about sometime...

anyway... my point is this - once you agree to let someone else
control what you do with your own property, do you really think you still own it???

a day will come when you will buy a game or a program or whatever and will NOT be able to use it in any way,
shape of form except only when 'they' (insert name here) tell you how and when you can use it...
anyone who supports this idea is going to regret it someday, bet on it...

It would sure be nice if piracy could be stopped, but you know there are things that are beyond anyone's
control and that's one of them... the internet is just too big to control... and I for one
wouldn't want some company or group of them controlling everything we do on the net...

I want to be able to format my HDD and reinstall my OS, or my games or programs or
whatever without having to kiss up to some BS company in order to get their permission to install something
I already paid my hard-earned money to buy in the first place...

There was a very good reason people died to protect these rights long ago... read your history book...

If you want to give all that up, well... go ahead if that's what you want... but I will not participate..
I simply won't buy anything from any company that thinks it has the right to revoke my ownership of a product
I paid for anytime they feel like it.... I'll keep my money in my pocket, I can think of much better ways of
spending it...

M

Actually, the license you purchase pretty explicitly spells out that the software isn't legally your property - that you're buying permission to use, in certain defined manners, what the law unswervingly affirms is the producer's property. This is an unfortunate state of affairs, as far as I am concerned: I personally think intellectual 'property' is logically incompatible with physical property rights, that all patents and copyrights are therefore immoral usurpations that should be abolished this instant, and so I wholeheartedly agree with you on the coming IP-driven Dark Age. But nothing can be done about it. Not buying software will not make IP disappear. Neither will calling your congressman or voting for some meathead who promises everyone the moon; neither will armed insurrection; neither will prayer...the world will go as it will and people will have to learn the lesson the hard way, as they always do. If history is any guide, another Reformation will be several centuries coming, and the locked down World Of Tomorrow that precedes it will be a hell of arbitrary tyranny where state, business, and landlord are effectively one.

In the meantime, ought not one enjoy life? Ought not one patronize the arts? That is, after all, what this is: one of the defining artistic achievements of our time. That is what I am happy to support; that is the value I'm happy to pay for. And thanks to that patronage, Bethesda has an opportunity - we shall see if they seize it - to use steam as it could be used.

Just to throw it out there: Steam has never given me ANY issues. I've used it to purchase 6 games. They've all downloaded quickly. The Preloading with FNV worked beautifully.

When I got home on the 19th the game decompressed and I was playing in minutes.

As far as issues with the game: had one crash in about 12 hours of play. After forcing settings through NVidia control panel, I get about 60fps. Just lucky I guess.

I feel your pain. I don't like being forced to install any additional software whenever I buy a game. I don't want your GFWL, Rocksar Social Club, Steam, UPlay or some other [censored] bogus application that only bothers me. I want to buy a game, install that game, run the game and enjoy the game without having to install any additional bullcrap, register for any additional bullcrap or perform any other steps that shouldn't be needed. I don't mind having to insert the disc all the time.

I see that once again a lot of people here claim that DRM is required to stop piracy. Well guess what, us buyers are being screwed over by being forced to install bogus software whereas the cracked version has been rid of Steam completely. Way to go DRM lovers! Bethesda should have sticked with Oblivion's DVD check (which didn't even rely on SafeDisc/SecuROM or some other [censored] failing DRM system). All the money developers and publisher put in DRM solutions could be better spent on actual game(engine) development and personel training instead. Don't bother legitimate users with failing annoying DRM systems that do not bother pirates at all.

As for the EULA, I don't even pay much attention to them. I paid for the game, so it's mine. The EULA has no legal validty in my country (and it has a questionable validty in the USA as well). In fact, where I live a EULA is only even remotely legally valid if you have full access to the EULA before purchasing the actual product upon where the EULA applies. Furthermore the law here assumes that people who do not have a judicial education are not able to correctly interpret the termonolgy used in EULA's which can lead people to make descisions on something they do not fully comprehend. You'd have to hire a jurist to explain the entire EULA in common comprehensable language so the person can accept it or decline it with full understanding of the concequences. Until then, EULA's are not valid in my country, so once again, Bethesda, Zenimax, Valve or whoever the hell can say and demand what they want, but they really have no say in the matter at all. Basically, beth, or whoever made the EULA, comes dangerously close to committing a crime where I live.

Not sure how it is in the USA, but I can also legally, by law that is, make a copy of the Fallout disc without asking anybody for permission even if the EULA says I can't.

Law > EULA any time. It just happens that European laws offer much more protection over things like this. In the court, the company would lose if what they're asking in their EULA is against or doesn't conform with the law.


Well I'm wnadering off now, just wanted to let you know that you have my support as well.

Completely agree with the op, after a rather short search discovered fnv was cracked within 24hrs of release...not to mention patches/updates were also cracked with days of release. so steam provided zero(0) protection vs the problems it has caused legitimate players. if i was beth i'd be dumping steam and asking for my money back since their 'protection' was a major bundle of fail. further, caused legitimate users more issues then those that stole the game o.O

really beth...if you buy something that not only doesn't work as intended but also causes more issues...what's the point trying to beat a dead horse? and for the people (i won't say idiots...i'll be nice) that support steam...how can you when the product doesn't work as intended period? it doesn't protect software and causes more problems of all kinds with the software it was intended to protect.

"Forces" of which side?

ISAF, NATO, but mostly US and British Military.

The biggest probel mwtih steam is that when you install, you cant play until all the patches have also been downloaded.

This is what makes it hard for people with bad/slow connections. All you people with super connections dont realise this cause it patches quickly for you, but i personally had to wait 30mins after installing before i could play because the patch had to be downloaded.......and i have a fairly reasonable connection for where i am (500kb/s).

If i had been forced to update on my old connection of 56kb/s it would have taken all afternoon.

If that was true, they'd use something else to stop people from doing it. However since the majority of pirating these days is on consoles it's pretty moot. But for a point of comparison. FO:NV was 'cracked' in under 3hrs of release. Steam for all intents and purposes for the end user screws them over. For all intents and purposes of the guys that have to report to shareholders, and other flappy heads. It's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Not only that but because of the way steam hooks into your OS, it has a tendency of screwing up other processes. A fine example is my recent oblivion install, it simply won't run with steam installed(an immediate CTD). However removing all traces of steam from my machine it runs just fine.

Thanks man.... well said...

one thing I can say though is laws are interpreted in different ways in different places, and simply because a law exists doesn't necessarily mean it will be enforced...

but you said so much that is true... and I agree with you about supporting the artists who are really the ones who make it possible in the first place...
however, very seldom do said artists benefit from the proceeds of thier work... it gets stolen from them by the same people who 'say' these kinds of
measures are to protect against piracy... another double-standard and a load of BS...

heck, I always thought one standard will do just fine... lol

M

I have no idea why you working in afghanistan is relevant.. But seeing as you're working for the US forces, it's rather hard to think you're actually on "local internet" and not on a military sat uplink.

complain to your superiors that your connection is crap and you need a stable uplink.. -.-' you're in/working for the military, you should be able to lie your way through.


anyway, i don't see any reason to bash them for taking steam as activation medium.. as Games for Windows Live is utter crap. If it's really such a problem, have someone "back home" download steam and activate it for you.. once it's linked to your account, you're set.

Actually, it is not, and it is quite ignorant of you to say such nonsense, especially being an IT "professional".

Steam is one of the best things to happen to PC gaming.

This section of the boards is for solving problems with the game, not for discussing Steam.