nVamp - Very Voracious Vermin


Very Voracious Vermin (VVV) is built in the same style as Mart's Monster/Mutant Mods from Oblivion and FO3. With VVV installed, you will get an increased spawn system along with already providing over 400 creatures/creature variations from Marz13's Creature Add-on XIII. Coupled with the already increased amount of bosses added when using nVamp (Like Whiskers the behemoth deathclaw), Serial Killer, New Vegas Bounties, and A World of Pain, and you have plenty of new and dangerous enemies to work with. Future plans with VVV include:

• Increases the amount of creature variations and adding new lore-friendly creatures to the game.
  
• Increasing the amount of boss type mobs in the game. These will randomly spawn anywhere in the world to provide additional danger when traveling.
  
• Increasing items pertaining to unique creatures/bosses of VVV. Marz13 has agreed to join the team to head VVV, and with Bob's Armory becoming a part of nVamp, we will be adding the new content of Bob's Armory into these encounters over time.
  
• Plenty more to come.

VVV Nexus page: http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40204
nVamp Nexus page: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40130
nVamp website: http://www.risegaming.com/nvamp
nVamp forums: http://www.fookunity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=120


Team:

Vaernus - Co-Project Lead
Marz13 - Co-Project Lead


VVV Features:

• New Spawn System in the works. More details on nVamp website.
  
• Increased populations throughout the wastes. The wasteland is a much more lively place.
  
• 9 Wanamingo Variations
  
• 3 Floater Variations
  
• 25+ Fire Ant Variations
  
• 5 Bighorner Hybrid Variations
  
• ~205+ Ghoul Variations
  
• 1 Mantis Variation
  
• 4 Boss Creatures
  
• 6 Lootable Death Items
  
• 1 Unique Weapon
  
• 1 Location
  
• 60+ Centaur Varieties
  
• 120+ Deathclaw Varieties
  
• 40 FEV Subject Varieties
  
• 90+ Mole Rat Varieties
  
• 25+ Bighorner Varieties

saw this on your site but waited for the thread on the forums before commenting. any possible conflicts and load order issues that users need to be aware of? and thank you for bringing this to NV! :tops:

EDIT: would you consider an unlevelled version so all mobs can spawn regardless of player level? or does it already do that?

Shouldnt have any conflicts or load order issues unless you are using something that changes spawns and creatures, or potentially loads something on top of a location where spawn points are at.

We are planning to have plenty of options for VVV. An unlevelled version sounds like a very good direction to go.

-V

Really looks nice. Some of the creatures make me somewhat hesitant to download though. Not a huge fan of neon creatures for example. Any plans on making this more modular? Think Mart's monster mods wammingo optional esp for example.

Failing that, is it possible to remove whatever creatures we want from the esp without blowing everything up?

If I get it, this VVV is the creature add-on XIII made more compatible with nVamp, right? Anything that we that already use the XIII should know in the "upgrade" process?

And... any plan to incorporate other creatures (like the http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=38877, because of the tarantulas...)?

I am going to be careful on how I choose my words right now.
I agreed with allowing IWS to be a part of nVamp under the condition that I can withdraw at any time for any reason I deem worthy. And that was the agreement.

However I was not expecting to see two mods that are already compatible combined AND THEN SEE THE NAME OF THE MOD NAMED AFTER THE PERSON WHO SUCCESSFULLY COMBINED TWO ALREADY COMPATIBLE MODS!!!
I worked my butt off on IWS through many sleepless nights reworking huge amounts of spawns. I was not told of this particular skew, I even had a conversation with Marz13 and we both agreed to simply remain compatible, he said nothing of this project.

To see you paste your name on this like you had something to do with the projects saddens greatly especially considering how much work it must have taken you to bring two already compatible mods together. Its disheartening as hell for me to see this right now especially in my current condition.

I DO NOT APPROVE

Using FOMOD (FMM)
Uninstalled IWS
Installed VVV
CTD on loading screen
Uninstalled VVV
Re-installed IWS
No Crash

I spoke to Marz about building the support for IWS much more finely inside nVamp and connecting the Creature Add-on XIII into it. For some reason, nVamp has been having issues as one large compilation due to it's size and scale and VVV was an attempt at making this a bit more modular within the nVamp framework and particularly showing that we can break it apart as people have been requesting already with the graphics overhaul and HUD. VVV was the name put together for this system within nVamp that would allow the changes within IWS to add the creatures of Marz's mod and future changes between us along with MGE's Repopulated Wasteland, Populated Casino, and NCR/Legion Enhancements which are already built into nVamp.

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm taking credit for this as it was just a nod of respect plus tongue in cheek to Martigen and the work he has done in the past in terms of the entire package of both an increased spawn system along with a huge variety of new creatures and variations and was never meant to be seen as some kind of branding. VVV was and is still requiring IWS as a master as it stands currently, and this is part of nVamp. This was never taking over IWS and was approached just as we've approached all of the compatibility patch framework. IWS, as was required by yourself, is required to be downloaded separately in order to be used by nVamp. This was after getting into a conversation with Marz and from how it went, that is why we went and built this. We were just bringing in the variety of creatures into nVamp and this was the output. Since you do not approve, then I will be happy with shutting down VVV until we can find a better way to bring Creature Add-on XIII into nVamp to utilize the increased spawn system if you still feel after this that it can be a part of nVamp. If it absolutely must stay completely within the bounds of nVamp and cannot be downloaded standalone, then I understand. And again, I apologize if you feel this stepped outside the bounds of the compatibility framework as that was our aim.

-V

Perhaps a renaming would be in order since its only that which gives the impression that the mod was originally made by V. nVamp's Voracious Vermin sounds acceptable to me, being named after the project itself, and it still manages to retain its naming similarity to MMM. It would be a pity if the community lost this.

in case you guys come to an agreement, i second Mavkiel's comment regarding neon creatures. it's what kept me from getting Creature add-on.

Whatever it takes. We're not out to take any credit with this, myself included. We're doing this to help the community and provide new ways to experience the game, plain and simple. This first release has focused on trying to make all these mods work together soundly while others were added because of the new experience they provided, whether or not they specifically required addition to the compatibility framework. More Perks comes to mind, and Dree and I had an agreement that having it part of nVamp was for the experience as beyond some dialogue changes needing to be passed down, it wasn't a compatibility problem. But Dree's wonderful mods have provided plenty of new avenues of character growth in the game beyond the vanilla, many of which have become nearly required considering the increased difficulty of the game with nVamp.

If the naming system for VVV makes it sound as if this was designed by myself, then I have no problem changing the name and removing the standalone version of this at all. And while VVV is indeed putting together multiple mods that may not have compatibility problems (though we do see some issues presenting between IWS and Repopulated Wasteland), the main focus of getting these multiple mods in front of people that may not have found some of them was the purpose of it, just as nVamp's purpose has been to take very well known and now so well known core mods (FOOK vs Superior Firepower for instance) as well as known and unknown internal mods and get them in front of people in a straightforward and simple (relatively) process.

-V

If you are going to take something I worked on and slap your name on it its going to feel like a slap in the face no matter how you slice it.
If you are going to name the mod after yourself and not tell me about it before hand that is not going to make me very happy.
If you are going to name the mod after yourself and not tell me and combine it with another mod that is already compatible anyway your going to upset me a lot.
If you are going to name the mod after yourself and not tell me and combine it with another mod that is already compatible anyway and not even offer anything new or unique in the first release to help explain why it was so important and great that they were finally brought together in the first place you are going to make me mad.

I am currently MAD

Now look, I understand the importance of sharing and having an open mod community. Ultimately its the people who play the quality content that we create as modders that matter the most here.
But this crosses the line. And I do not feel that this line was beyond common sense in nature.

I mean seriously, I don't even fully understand why IWS is combined in nVamp anyway, I never really have honestly. IWS is friendly with most other mods it does not need to be part of an FCOM style compilation...
Seriously, I could have done just as much by adding a link to Marz13s creature mod on the IWS nexus page and been done with it.

/facepalm
I am sad and a bit put off by this whole situation. Pulling IWS from nVamp wont change things anyway as IWS + nVamp will run together anyway.
No hard feelings Marz13 I am not mad at you.

For now I want IWS out of nVamp and nVamp related projects. Any future compilations will require me knowing in advance and I need a solid list of reasons that the compilation is necessary to increase the quality of the experience playing the mod. Do not name it after yourself.

Pull the thread pull the mod imo.

We will remove IWS from nVamp, and VVV has been shutdown for the time being until we remove IWS from it. I just want to say that we had contacted you on the 6th and the message shows as being read, so I feel as if we're getting the raw end of the stick here when saying you were never notified. It's basically questioning our integrity and I've got a inbox full of messages for every single permissions request prior to even making this and nVamp public.

Yes it's compatible. But IWS isn't Marts. And VVV was attempting to build a Marts system for New Vegas in one package, not having to download 3-5 mods because they are compatible. Hell, Creatures is only easily found by searching for creatures. It is not in the Top 100 and therefore the majority of users will never find it. That means another quality mod is not found by many people that would enjoy this to it's fullest, which is the entire purpose behind nVamp. Get quality mods in front of people that would otherwise not see them ever.

I understand you are mad, but we followed what we were allowed to do to the letter in ensuring IWS was the master and not merged in, required to be downloaded from the site, and credit was given. Nowhere in nVamp or VVV does it say that we created the system or take credit for IWS. But we will respect your wish as the mod author, as we ensured that we had explicit permission from every mod author before adding core mods or internal mods into nVamp even though technically it's a large patch framework and people make patches all the time without explicit consent.

We just hope you would reconsider, or at least consider doing something like this yourself as Marz13 is obviously very open to the system. I don't care whether it's something nVamp does. My only focus was providing it for the community and if your expertise is in the spawn system, and Marz would want to work directly with you to build in all the new creatures, I'd consider that a win for the community. But that's just my thoughts.

-V

I took a look and found the message you sent. I simply don't remember ever reading it or seeing it I am not sure what happened there.... The message does explain things in detail. Had I read seen or read the message I think the first thing I would have commented on was the name. I wish that there was a little more followup as somehow there was a communication breakdown... The last thing I remember was talking to Marz13 and agreeing that compilation was not necessary as all we needed to do is stay compatible.
I really seriously had no idea what was going on...

I do feel better actually seeing the message.

Still I do feel at fault and in the wrong for not hearing back from the message and going ahead with this considering it was becoming a standalone mod relying on IWS as well as an internal part of nVamp so I apologize for that. It went in a different direction than was specifically anticipated with you agreeing to have IWS as part of nVamp in the patch framework. I wish I'd known also that Marz had spoken to you as I'd never heard about this until your message. All I'd read on his comments was that someone mentioned getting in contact with you since the two mods would work together well, and we approached him about bringing his creature add-on into nVamp so that it would be able to, in a sense, work with IWS considering the community would already be using it. Making it standalone came as a response to wanting this becoming considerably more modular in it's approach, and the entire spawn/population system was one of the most straightforward to do after the graphics and HUD. Looking back, I agree that the name was the worst possible choice to make and the aim for it being something to relate to MMM (with VVV as something people could relate to easily) in Oblivion and FO3 turned out to sound more like something I've created. The best laid plans...

I'm also beginning to think that FCOM is not the best descriptor for this project. While some parts have required some coupling to work properly, as you mentioned, IWS has not required any coupling. New Vegas doesn't have 4-5 massive overhauls like OOO, Francesco's, Oblivion Warcry, etc. that all are completely changing the game. But really, the focus our team has had was for providing one central system to give a new experience of all the top quality mods in the community. Whether or not they've required changes in nVamp's patch framework to function has been irrelevant to the fact that by having them together, that experience can exist. Removing IWS has made a significant change to how nVamp runs without the amount of detail and care put into a more lively environment. And that's what we're after with this project. The patching is there, and all the bug fixing we've constantly been doing after 2 hotfixes and 2 patches later in a few days, for the situations where mods are not working properly or conflicting, but overall it's the experience.

However, I would really like to see a full blown Mart-based mod that is compiled into one neat package for everyone to be able to find and download. The pieces are there on the Nexus, and it just requires them coming together to fully shine.

-V

Nice New Title (NNN, see what i did there? ). good to see a mature process of working things out. too much immaturity on the net as it is. hope things get amicably settled soon, for the community's sake.

I also hope issues can be resolved in favor of the community as a whole. I think Vaernus said it best above when he stated:

Isn't that what mod lists are there for?

E:
I remember Mez's mod list in FO3, which did a pretty good job in listing all the quality mods out there, noted potential conflicts etc. But of course that would be less spectacular

The thing with mod lists, which I used before getting into modding myself, is that they can only go so far. At a bare minimum, there was a bit of changes that had to be made with the current nVamp core mods in order for them to all work properly. Even something like More Perks required getting the proper dialog topics passed down to the game as there was the potential they wouldn't (merged patch should take care of it since they'd be merged into the patches dialog topics, but better safe than sorry). And now we're seeing the issues between PN and PPA which obviously a patch can solve, but that means more work trying to see which mods affect other mods, and then less time building quality mods and more fixing compatibility.

A lot can't be taken care of with a merged patch and therefore requires human intervention. Considering many people in the community wouldn't be using FNVEdit to hand build a patch, that means that the game they are playing with all these mods just on load order and merged patch is not the full functionality of the mods as parts are being overridden. So with building something like nVamp which connects many large core mods being constantly updated along with even more merged mods that enhance the main functionality, we can ensure that they all work together properly so the end experience is a smaller load order that's been fine tuned to work perfectly. And as we get more modular over time, we give a lot more options beyond just the adjuster files for the game.

Overall, if we can get the socketed approach to work properly by having mod authors become a part of the program and use the FormIDs in nVamp, that means that internal mods can also be updated on the fly both inside nVamp and standalone. And if a standalone mod is updated before it's updated in nVamp, a user could download the latest standalone mod and it will properly override the functionality in nVamp.

-V

I am confused with respects to IWS then. The mod author states over and over that it is compatible with nVamp and that it's compatible with everything except something that does the exact same thing. You still suggest we use it-in fact you post that at the top of your page and include it in the load order. So what is the difference between downloading it and using it now as opposed to when it was part of the "core" mods?

There were certain compatibility patches that were included within nVamp with respect to IWS. One in particular was between IWS and Electro-City. And unless I remember correctly, it is going to conflict with Repopulated Wasteland in the 188 Trading Post unless that has been removed. I remember there being multiple objects loading over top of each other with the original Populated Wasteland. Also there are many new locations being added into the nVamp core that could interfere with certain spawn points, that I have not been able to find any yet but there are prominent projects in the works adding new content all over the place. Within nVamp, we are able to clear up these conflicts on the fly rather than having to rely upon patch after patch between mod authors to resolve and take away time from mod development itself. We take on the responsibility of ensuring all the mods work together perfectly at all times.

-V

Thanks for the clarification! I can't wait to see how nVamp develops over time.

I have thought about this particular topic for some time now and I have decided that I am ok with IWS being included in nVamp and nVamp related projects under the same conditions I agreed to before. Because of the nature of nVamp and the fact that people are still required to grab the latest version of the mod from me it was much easier for me to come to this conclusion. In the future be more careful about how you name the project and take great care to give all people the credit they deserve ect... If you want to call it after yourself call it "Vaernus's mod compilation" or something along those lines. The name of this current project was almost as if you were proclaiming yourself to be the next Martigen.. I cant even proclaim THAT...

And always assume that if I have not responded to a message it means I have not read it. I try to make sure I get back to you on everything you send me. And I will.

One more request: How about a fresh thread with a more friendly name so we can forget about all of this?
Lets get back to modding shall we

PS: will send this same message via private message on the nexus

yes fresh thread, fresh start would be a good idea. the name's already been changed in the OP anyway. im assuming V wanted the title of the thread changed as well but couldnt of course. good to see this settled.

and as TheCastle said, back to modding you guys. i want my updates!

Please disregard this thread. New thread is up. Gonna let this one die out over time for the updated one.

-V