Khans problem makes no sense? : Fallout: New Vegas

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:25 pm

So you think when the Allies won WWII that they should have shot everyone of the children that had attended Nazi youth camp? :rolleyes:

I think he meant every child that is German.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:09 pm

So you think when the Allies won WWII that they should have shot everyone of the children that had attended Nazi youth camp? :rolleyes:

"Should've killed them" and "having an issue with killing innocents of their own while they were killing the attacking party's innocents" are 2 different things. and the likelihood of the lives of the khan's changing are different than the nazi's.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:56 am

"Should've killed them" and "having an issue with killing innocents of their own while they were killing the attacking party's innocents" are 2 different things. and the likelihood of the lives of the khan's changing are different than the nazi's.

How so? You think kids growing up in Nazi Germany did not become Nazi party members?

You think all kids grows up in Khan Clans become drug dealers and murders and rapists?

The basis of your belief is that Nazis can change, but Khans cannot. That is a fallacy. You are saying if you put the Khan childrens in NCR camp and give them a proper education that they will still turn out to be murders and rapists. Yet if you put a German child into a ally camp and teach him a proper education he will come to love the allies and be their staunch supporter?

Seriously?

I kill the khans every NV run i do.

they're degenerates, and those "innocent" elderly were once those degenerates, so they deserve to die too. women are innocent... lets not even go there. those children would've become degenerates as well. on top of that the khans had been doing the same thing. wounded degenerate raiders who would just recover and continue deserve to die as well.

there's no real issue.

it doesn't matter, they're going to become [censored] raiders anyway.

your thinking is what is simplistic.

there is no real "line" where people become responsible for their actions. it's something people make up for themselves. we're designed to be protective of children, it is an evolutionary advantage.

The same logic applies to Nazis. Or is there another track of logic that is obvious to everyone?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:09 am

"Should've killed them" and "having an issue with killing innocents of their own while they were killing the attacking party's innocents" are 2 different things. and the likelihood of the lives of the khan's changing are different than the nazi's.

On what basis do you have that the Khan couldn't change? advlts get svcked into situations and buy into ideas where they otherwise wouldn't normally all of the time.

In a wasteland world like Fallout where communities are more or less are cut off and secluded from each other. Where there's very few ways to communicate to the outside world, there are even fewer people you can turn to and seek protection from. Children have even less say in the matter.

When given an option, most people would prefered not to have to depend on chems or raider/kill other people for food for their own survival.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:13 am

So if I understand correctly, you're advocating wholesale slaughter of every member of a group (women, children, sick) because some members of the group are involved in illegal activities?

Yes

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:50 am

The Khans are a bunch of murdering raiders that never distinguished between soldiers and civilians. After Bitter Springs, the Khans acted like the NCR's actions were unjustified. They were justified. The massacre at Bitter Springs was just retribution for the crimes committed against NCR settlers and the Khans were seemingly unprepared to have to pay for their crimes. That is the way of the wasteland.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:26 am

The Khans are a bunch of murdering raiders that never distinguished between soldiers and civilians. [snip] That is the way of the wasteland.

But I think that's what the difference is between the NRC with their lofty ideals to bring back civilization and just another raider tribe.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:03 am

it doesn't matter, they're going to become [censored] raiders anyway.

your thinking is what is simplistic.

Oh right. Got it. So the offspring of any murderers and rapists should automatically be put to death simply because Mezo6 has the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" view. And you say my thinking is simplistic.

It's this sort of nonsense that sparks so many of the idiotic atrocities in human history.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:45 am

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

Khans are pissed at NCR because of Bitter Springs.. heres what I heard, tell me if I'm missing something:

Papa Khan: "So, we see the NCR moving into the area, and we think awesome! Lets rob, murder, pillage and [censored] (wow.. you cant say a word that starts with R, ends with e and means to sixually violate with force... yet its said several times in the game.. ok) their settlers as they struggle to get a foothold, good times, right? On top of that, lets sell drugs that addict and kill, make the wastelands even worse. But no, thoes NRC bastards couldnt sit there and take it. They fight back and attack our settlement! They kill some of our women children and elderly, like we have been doing to others for decades! How dare they, the pigs!"

And on top of that, NCR feels bad about this? What kind of liberal crap is this? This isn't a gentlemans war or something, its raiders killing settlers and a nation responding by killing raiders... its clear as day whos in the right and the Khans got what they deserved. Seriously, am I missing a key part of the story line here or does this not make sense to anyone else?

It doesn't make sense if you apply extra assumptions to Papa Kahn's words. Papa Kahn says he raids the NCR's towns, outposts, and caravans. You assume he does more than pillage their supplies. Heres the thing... you, the player, can freely enter Great Kahn territory and they won't attack. So where do you get the assumption that he murders and raqes people that won't fight back?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:36 am

yeah..i killed papa Khan almost by accident.. had boone with me were passing through there..was trying to get to jacobstown...to say boone wasn't popular is abit of an understatement..anyway he killed some guy who wasnt a khan..all of a sudden everyone is shooting at him..dropping like flies..so i thought what the hell..next thing i know killed papa and that part of the story is over

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:59 am

I think its different mindsets as to how you view this, my view is criminals should be killed.

well i dont expect you to complain when i have you executed for illegal parking in front of my house forcing me to park 12 feet further than i would like.

or to overtake at the wrong moment

or drop litter

or be drunk in a public place

or use foul language near a police officer etc etc.

just hold out that arm for the needle and take it. :laugh:

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:20 am

I dont put all of my two cents into the politics incorperated in the game...I let my Oh Baby!, M1 Garand, and 50 Cal do that for me. On a side note, my Oh Baby! didnt like the Great Khans too well. It had a sudden urge to wipe them out the second I walked into their meeting hall [ if you will ] and laid my eyes on the sorry bunch.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:20 am

I dont put all of my two cents into the politics incorperated in the game...I let my Oh Baby!, M1 Garand, and 50 Cal do that for me. On a side note, my Oh Baby! didnt like the Great Khans too well. It had a sudden urge to wipe them out the second I walked into their meeting hall [ if you will ] and laid my eyes on the sorry bunch.

i wipe out anyone find with a messy home.

i mean if they canrt be arsed to pick up tin cans off the floor then i think its time to vacate the place for someone who will keep it tidy.

if i walk in and its a mess,then its ratslayer time.

speaking of which,the mrs didnt clean up the breakfast table yet ?
its been 20 mins ????

excuse me while i slap her round the room a bit.

better check shes not on the other pc before posting this one :wink_smile:

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:05 pm

But I think that's what the difference is between the NRC with their lofty ideals to bring back civilization and just another raider tribe.

This.

This is why I love the factions in this game so much. If you are of the bent that "the group as a whole has done bad things, therefore everyone associated should die", then head on over to CL - they fit your ideals perfectly (just look at Nipton!). Rather than being forced to put up with a group whose ideologies don't fit yours (or you characters'), you can just head on over to the other side. F:NV FTW! :fallout: