The Ceasers Legion hates me to death so we kill each other on sight but if i go in to one of there buildings i loose karma for taking there goods wtf, is anyone else having this problem :sadvaultboy:

Whats up with this? We can't take from our enemy, but at one of our ally's building (Helios One I believe) you can take anything.

Yea i have the same problem with my game to. I am assuming they will patch it up hopefully and it will be taken care of. I guess its a good thing they dont keep track of karma in your pipboy.

Karma is tracked per faction, so if you steal from the Legion you lose rep with them.

Me and thr NCR shoot eachother on sight

:gun: :cheat:

No, I don't believe that's the case. Your Karma is your Karma. Your reputation is tracked per faction separately.

It's either a bug or an oversight... or they intended it that way for some reason.

They really should have done a better job of clarifying how 'Karma' works as opposed to 'Fame/Infamy'. As they seem to pretty well be the same thing.

I believe capeo is right. reputation and karma are tracked differently. Karma is not faction specific, its overall.

Me too but the karma doesn't seem to matter nearly as much as reputation in this game. I also randomly gain good karma for killing ghouls. Honestly if that is the least of my worries I'll take it over the mass of glitches others are experiencing.

Stealing is evil, even if you steal it from evil people. It's not like that this would destroy your karma because you get a huge bonus fro doing good things. If you want to play angel-like than act as one!

No. It's not. If some guys just started shooting at me it ended with them all dead I'm not stealing any more. I'm taking nobody's stuff. Don't try to justify a weakness in the technology.

Its not stealing if they're dead... its looting.

:ninja: :ninja:

Good point. What I know is that I steal EVERYTHING I see. No issues with people not wanting to talk to me or changing dialog options.

Wrong, if you clear out a faction base doesn't mean that you have wiped out the whole faction. There are still survivors and the will also ambush you on random encounters. The stuff is not owned by a single person, it belongs to the whole community.

I don't let the Karma thing bother me in this game....not even sure what it's for, aside from maybe a character title?

If I want it, and I can get it, I take it.

Simple as that!

Sorry, but you're reaching. It's somehow not 'evil' to loot the dead body of a guy who started shooting at you, but if you take his pencil off the table next to him his entire faction knows about it and hates you more?

You're going to need to be a politician for at least 30 years before you can come up with logic backwards enough to justify the Karma system.

Yeah, the random karma boosts are strange. If I kill Powders in random encounters I get good karma. If I go into one of there bases and wipe out 30 of them? No boosts. I don't get it.

I don't really care anyway. I'm with jhansen2: if I see it and I want it, well, shortly it will be mine.

Karma is "cosmic."

no one needs to witness an act for it to affect your karma. its karma!


the part i do not understand... is it wrong to steal food if you are starving? is it more wrong to withhold food from a starving person?

if it was really following karma, i would not lose karma for raiding any refrigerator when/if i was near death.

Stealing is bad and wrong.

It doesn't matter if you shoot first, or last. The items did not, and do not belong to you. They belong to that faction, you are not part of that faction.

When you take it you are stealing from that faction, doesn't matter if you love or hate them, and how they feel about you, its still stealing.

that said stealing is such a small karma loss that it doesn't matter any way.

Okay what about when you kill everyone in an area and it is no longer they're area (trying to avoid spoilers)? If they have been forced out of that area by you then it stands to reason that what they left behind is yours.

The items didn't belong to those people, they belong to faction X-Y or Z.

Just like if I walked in work one day and everyone was dead, and I stole some company items, they belong to the company the people just use them. Still stealing.

The reason you can take things off the body's is because that is the personal belongs of that person, and if they are dead its fair game.

Just like lets say you wipe a camp of NCR out. The NCR still OWNS that camp, regardless of anyone being there. Just because the people are gone, does not mean the NCR stop existing.
So when you walk in the armory and the nice shiny anti-material rifle is there, it sill belongs to the NCR, not any one person.

IF and only IF that rifle had been GIVEN to a NPC would it be fair game.

I honestly think this was just laziness on the part of Obsidian, but just for the sake of argument...why would it somehow be okay to murder and steal from individuals, but not be okay to steal from organizations? Isn't this ascribing some superior status to an organization as opposed to an individual? That sounds like a tricky moral decision that's already been made for us, if that's the case, and it happens to be one I don't agree with at all. There's no way some abstract entity, like corporations in our time, should be given more moral rights to exist than an individual. Meaning, I can kill you and take your stuff, and that's fine, but any offense against the organization is considered an act of evil. Again, just for having fun. I'm sure the real story is they just didn't want to tag all of these thousands of objects with anymore data.

I suppose that at the very least the game is making me think about moral issues, which I can't honestly say has happened from any other games recently.