What's going on forum? I'm new to the forum! I have a question for you guys what would be a good secondary combat skill to go with guns? I was thinking melee for the cowboy perk but considering unarmed has some cool weapons and explosives are deadly and have an aoe effect. So any ideas or tips?

Well, Energy Weapons are pretty common, but ammo is scarce and expensive. Also, Energy Weapons are fun to use and vary a lot.
Explosives are powerful, but are very expensive, ammo is more scarce and expensive than energy weapons. And they are not of much use.
Unarmed is powerful against some enemies and has some very high damaging weapons. Ballistic Fist, Pushy, Paladin Toaster. But going in up close is a bit dangerous in some situations. *cough*deathclaws*cough**cough*.
Melee Weapons vary a lot. Some are fast and weak. Some are slow and strong. Some are of medium speed and medium power. But still going in up close is dangerous in situations.
It depends on what kind of character you have and what his SPECIAL and Skills are to determine the secondary combat skill. I would say no secondary combat skill at all, Guns is good itself. Get Speech or Barter and Repair too.

That all depends on what appeals to you, friend. Unarmed gets dangerously overpowered once you have around 50 skill and a Displacer Glove/Ballistic Fist/Spiked Knuckles. Melee can be very fun and the cowboy perk is certainly worth the investment. While explosives are fun, I can't really find a practical use for them. Almost never is there a group of enemies tightly packed enough to hit with explosives. But, that doesn't stop picking up a missile launcher and going on a hunt for Cazadors (you'll learn to hate those [censored]s). So, I don't know. A little bit of all three, maybe? It may be better to tag Speech as there a TON of speech checks in this game. For serious. Get up to 70 Speech and you'll probably have much happier quest endings.

Well if you can't figure out a secondary skill, just work on your Sneak. It's fun!! What I love about Sneak, is that you can use weaker weapons to kill strong opponents.

I killed a bunch of Omerta Thugs (Not too hard), with a Silenced .22 Pistol. It's relatively weak, only shooting at about 16 Dam (I have high gun skill, and Lord Death perk.) It would usually take about 10 shots to kill an Omerta Thug with that gun, but when in Sneak Mode and aiming it better to their head, one shot can take care of them. As far as I know, it doesn't matter how weak the weapon is, a Sneak attack usually results in promising critical hits, that can take care of someone fast.

Of course how loud your shot is factors in as well, you wouldn't sneak with a Shotgun and expect not to be noticed.

Alright I think I'm going to have melee as a secondary for the cowboy perk but not fully invest in it. Thanks for the help! Oh and I always invest into speech. P.s. Does anyone like Cazadors? lol [censored] those bastards!

Hmm I'm not a fan of sneak tbh I've tried a character but enemies seem to always notice me even with a relatively high sneak skill. Is that just me?

I hate them. It seems that they still poison me (or whatever they do) even if I don't get near them. And they just won't die! You need to blow them up to make sure they're dead. That's why I sport the Riot Shotgun. :toughninja:

Like?............Yes! I do like them. Their poison stinger does not give me fear. Because I have weapons (and Antivenom, oh and Datura Antivenom, thanks Honest Hearts)! But I really do like them and their structure.

I agree with their design but damn they are annoying! Then again shoot their wings and its all good

I like their gargantuan abdomen and thier orange wings fluttering like bags at a grocery store.
I used to have a cazador as my avatar and have all my posts like this!
I don't really have a problem with them. They don't really get anywhere near me with the weapons I have. I don't get near them that much either.

I have another question would Chance's Knife be a good starter melee weapon? Or is there a better suggestion?

Grunt and Cowboy make it even better. So yes it would be a good starter melee weapon.

Alright thanks very much.

Explosives not of much use? Heh. Buff up explosives and pack a fully modded Grenade Launcher, and a bag of hand grenades with you, and you have an excellent secondary skill which can double as primary in a lot of situations. It's a nice break from filling things with bullet holes, to lob a 100 Explosives, 3x Demo Expert 40mm round into the middle of a large group of unsuspecting enemies whilst they're playing pinochle. Not of much use, my rosy bum. The only downside, is sometimes having to search for their bodies which got blow over half of southern Nevada. As for being 'expensive', unless you sling grenades all over like they were popcorn, if they are your secondary weapons, you'll probably never have to buy any at all, making the only expense from explosives being the cost of modding up your launcher(s). Highly recommend explosives as a secondary skill.

Hey I was saying that ammo was expensive and hard to find. (except at Nellis) I didn't say I didn't like Explosives. You might have misread what I meant or I might have said it wrong.
I was trying to say that using a Missile on one enemy is a waste of a missile. Using a Frag on one enemy is a waste. I was trying to say that I can't use explosives often because enemies don't come in packed groups. But Splash Damage and (3) Demolition Expert might take care of that radius problem, maybe some HE grenades to pump up the explosion radius. If I didn't like explosives, I wouldn't have made 2 character who only use Explosives. If I didn't like explosives, then I wouldn't have raised it to 100 instead of Speech or Barter or Repair to 100. My Speech, Barter, and Repair are not 100.

Secondary combat skill depends on what kind of character you have as does primary.

There really is no weak combat skill, although if you use energy weapons without raising your science to make max-charged cells, your really giving yourself a handicap.

It's all in the technique. First off, always get Sneak to 100 as quick as you can. I'm not sure of the exact mechanics behind how Sneak works, but if it's like most games, it's a dice roll in the background, which determines whether you get detected or not in any situation- and the higher your level of Sneak, the more favorable your detection rolls are going to be.

Always get Silent Running perk at level 12- my favorite perk in the whole game, and any Sneak specialist's favorite. Before you get SR, Sneaking is a pain in the butt, because you can only effectively do it up close while in 'walk' mode, making it slower than hell, and quite dangerous. Once you have SR and 80+ Sneak skill, that's when it starts to shine.

Gear- light armor or clothing, at least until you have maxed out Sneak and gotten Silent Running- then you can get fairly close in medium armors, if you feel you just have to wear them. But stick with light armors for best sneak results. If you have companions along, give them light armor too. Not sure if your companion's gear factors into them being detected or not, but I choose to err on the side of caution.

If you want to do your best sneaking, play at night. Night's darkness, and the extra dark shadows available, vastly improve your sneakiness. Trying to sneak up close in daytime just gets you killed.

Stay in shadows and behind covering objects as much as possible, and always try to stay within the 180-degree arc which is 'behind' the enemy you're sneaking up on. When that enemy turns in your direction, freeze and don't move at all until they change direction and you are once again in their rearwards arc. Your enemy's sneak-detection rolls are much higher when you are in 'front' of them. Or if you have to move, move behind a cover object where they can't see you, if one is close by. Plan ahead- take note of all the possible shadowy places and objects which will block or obstruct your opponent's view of you as you move closer. Then use them.

Only get as close as you need to- unless you're trying to pick their pocket or do a melee/unarmed sneak attack, you don't need to be right on top of them to get an easy kill with most weapons attacks. Pop open a VATS screen every so often as you sneak towards them- once you start getting a 95% chance for headshots (or whatever body part you want to hit), you're close enough.

Be patient, always. Snipers and assassins don't rush in- they are silent and patient and take as long as it takes to do it right. If you aren't patient, don't bother with Sneak- go get a minigun. Since you will of course be in crouched sneak mode during your movement towards the target (you do realize the Sneak skill does not help you at all unless you are crouched, right?), you should see your stealth indicator at the top of the screen- pay very close attention to it. When it says 'hidden', your enemy is completely unaware you are around. When it says 'CAUTION', it means one or more enemies have become aware *something* is nearby- but not exactly where, and they don't have a target lock on your position yet. If you have companions with you, this caution flag will probably make those idiots freak out and go Rambo on you, attacking instantly and screwing up the whole show. Better off to leave your companions somewhere far away, if you are really serious about your sneakery.

But, if you wisely left your companions elsewhere, and the CAUTION flag goes up, do not panic- it doesn't mean they will actually find you, or start attacking. Sometimes, if you just remain totally still and crouched, they will lose the scent and go back to their normal business, and your indicator will go back to 'Hidden'. Other times, if they are moving too close to you when looking around for you in Caution mode, you can quietly slip behind a rock, a corner of a building, below a ridgeline, or into a deeper shadow... and also elude detection that way until they give up interest. With practice, you can raise the Caution flag repeatedly during your stalk of a target, and still get in for a silent Sneak kill. Be aware that some flavors of enemies have a lot better stealth detection than others, and can be very tough to sneak close to- Deathclaws are one notable example. Not impossible, but tougher. NIghtstalkers are a beach, too.

Another thing to remember, when trying to sneak-kill multiple enemies- if you use silenced weapons, you can kill enemies that are fairly close to others without alerting those others, as long as the one(s) you aren't attacking are facing away from you and your target, and as long as you get an instant kill so they can't warn their friends. It also helps to use cover for your attack in a way that you can only be seen by your target, and not his friends. Killing a target this way might put his friends into CAUTION mode, be if they can't see you due to your positioning, you have a chance to elude them and stay in stealth. You might be able to quickly and silently retreat to a safer spot nearby, until they give up and stop looking.

Now go forth and Sneak!

I recommend using unarmed as a secondary combat skill. There's nothing more satisfying than using the ranger takedown on Benny and then stomping him to death. It's very useful in places where you would need holdout weapons too, because the holdout weapons for unarmed are pretty good.

In the one line you wrote about explosives, you said only that they were expensive and not of much use. No mention of liking. Just replying to what you wrote.

I recommend Guns as your complimentary combat skill to Guns. Seriously. Guns is so good, and ammo so plentiful that you don't need a backup. Just carry a good pistol to back up your rifle for taking out close-range attackers.

Hehe, yeah... guns, with a side of shotguns, and a pistol appetizer! Hot lead for every kind of appetite.