i have had an isssue with fallout as long as its existed (rifts, too); it was summed up befor i was even born by someone else:

ya, thats about right; everytie i turn around, post apoc types peresent a world that's been blown to sh**, and nobody seeems to want to lift a fingerr to so much as clear away enough of rht debris to TRY and fix it- they dont even wanna clean up the toxic waste speills.
ive always had a beef with that. Learn a habit, it’s not wise to upset a mutie.
But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a Human.
That’s ‘cause Humans don’t eat people when they get irritable. Mutie’s are known to do that.

Green Haired and PProud!!!!

When you mean first born do you mean born as a boy or dipped in FEV?

But seriously I agree with you, even though I kinda like the blasted out feel of things in the franchise. But from hearing from other people about FOOL, it will be about rebuilding civilization. So mankind will be "reaching out for that ultimate perfection." No definate word on that from TPTB, that I know of though.
"Salvation goes to those who deserve it. Freedom goes to those who fight for it. Liberty goes to the conquerors who shatter the hopes and dreams of the enemy." - HKY09, paraphrased

ya..... but thats motif, the style...... you can build in that style, and still be building.......
it's not just falloout, though; Detahlands, Rifts, etc. they're all like that. Learn a habit, it’s not wise to upset a mutie.
But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a Human.
That’s ‘cause Humans don’t eat people when they get irritable. Mutie’s are known to do that.

Green Haired and PProud!!!!

Kind of a philosophical thread, hm? okay

Well correct me if i am wrong but, the time the first Fallout game was started to develop the fear of nuclear world war was still very present and i think it never really be vanish from deep within our all minds. Fallout simply confronts us with our fears wich are to a part even a bit fascinating because it plays in the same world on one hand but on the other in a complete different. Any kind if civilization like we know it, is gone. And perhaps it also shows us that such a world war wont be the end of humankind, rather starts a new age for the humankind..a dark and depressing one.

I mean even in Star Trek happends a third world war with nuclear weapens but luckely they got no super mutants, instead they got the vulcans, lol

I don't really know what OP is talking about...maybe they haven't really thought of the entire situation of the Fallout Universe yet and latched onto an idea and got tunnel vision.

The world as we know it has pre-established order, laws, and things that govern us as a whole. Politics rule civilizations and always will - and as suggested by the name - it is the tool of civilized nations to "prosper". That doesn't mean that the concept of politics itself is a civilized concept. It is just that - a concept. To help you understand the world of Fallout, we can contrast it with the present day Middle-East. There, people are not nations, but tribal, NEARLY primal sects that are out for their own desires, and more or less, have no desire to work with other sects or tribes. Politics still exist there. They are in their most primitive forms, though, and exist only to serve those who strive to be in some sort of power only to control those around them.

The same situation exists in the Fallout universe.

Though your original post merely stated an opinion, (you simply said that you hated the state of the Fallout world), I have to interject that in real life, and hopefully in the Fallout MMO, it would be no different than the existing games. Along with most of the atmosphere, the bombs swept away government structure, laws, and any notion of a civilized inclination of giant bodies of people (i.e. nations). There are MANY, many bad people that exist today, and are even in power. You say you hate how people won't even clear away the toxic waste? Those same people that never would clear it away exist HERE and NOW, in your very country, but we are guarded from them by the global stage of political correctness and law. In the Fallout universe? None of that exists. It is much much easier to be bad than good in this world, and would be easier without law enforcement, and, unfortunately, there are many many more bad people in this world - and in the most dire of situations, even good people will be driven to indirectly do bad things - i.e. look out for their own. So with the vale of political correctness and law gone, anyone has free reign to let their true colors out.

Clear away the debris? Why would anyone want to? They're simply trying to survive. Besides, it was civilized nations in the first place that destroyed the world. Why would they want to rebuild the very world that betrayed them? Would you? Maybe you would - but you're in the minority.

And so the anger sets in. Not of citizens. But of earthlings. And in that vulnerable state, what would be easier and more beneficial to rebuild? The city? Or the minds of a people in the image you've created?

So politics set in. Again.

There were plenty of good people though - Shady Sands for instance. They were a product of both the kindness of people gravitating towards eachother, but ever vigilant of their reality. But like you, they're in the minority. And like the Middle-East, the world did not consist of a couple million lone travelers, but people gravitated towards eachother - creating primal tribes and sections looking out for nothing but their own desires, and most of the time, the desires of a select few, with politics as a tool to rebuild. But not the debris.

Guess it would be a question of stability, resources and knowledge. And those are not abundant outside certain areas in the fallout universe.

I guess Somalia would be good comparison. No central govenment, Puntland and Somaliland go their own way stable and dreams of independence pretty muich functioning countries. In the south the government fights with a religiious army for control mix in occasional foreign invasions. How could you rebuild anything in a state of constant conflict no resources and people with the knowledge to do something leave the area? Areas change ruler from time to time and impose their rule on the people.

Back to Fallout, so in the areas under a central rule that are stable and have resources things are fixed and cleaned, out on the wasteland not so much, perhaps has something to do with ropaming bandits, mutated creatures and not so friendly armies. And removing toxic and radioactive waste without proper equipment... that could decimate the workforce pretty fast-

I always thought that gamesas and B are going forward into the timeline too fast for the franchise. Sooner or later, Fallout will have to become a typical sci-fi game to stay believable, since staying in the aftermath of the Great War for so long without much progress seems pointless. Along with rebuilding into a post-apocalypse Utopia seems to throw away what makes Fallout loved so much: Post-Nuclear Survival.

Gah, I think my opinions are starting to hurt this forum.
"Salvation goes to those who deserve it. Freedom goes to those who fight for it. Liberty goes to the conquerors who shatter the hopes and dreams of the enemy." - HKY09, paraphrased

I agree that at some point mankind would pull itself out of the rubble, but that might not be right after or even 100s of years after such a war. There would be a very quick and steep decline and at some point civilization would hit bottom before it started to recover.

I kind of see the Fallout series as a representation of a second "Dark Age" that could take a very long time to get out of.

I think there is something to that saying that the more advanced a civilization is, the farther it will fall when something really bad happens.

How many people can raise a crop in their backyard if the food supply collapsed tomorrow?
How many in the 1950s? Or even the 1850s? and etc?

Well would it be Fallout if ncr, bos etc had laid down their weapons and agreed on borders. All raiders had been hunted down and killed or thrown in jail. Dangerous mutated animals for the safty of humans had been hunted and killed, perhaps some still lives in zoos around the former USA. Most toxic waste or radioactive contaminated areas would have been decontaminated. etc
How much fun would that be.

Good point.

If that were to happen to the Fallout franchise, then I guess I might as well go back to playing [INSERT JOB] Tycoon!
"Salvation goes to those who deserve it. Freedom goes to those who fight for it. Liberty goes to the conquerors who shatter the hopes and dreams of the enemy." - HKY09, paraphrased

i survived katrina.
ok, everything wwas a messed up disaster.

the first thing we did (after the rain stopped) was clean up. Took all day long (especially the broken glass and various things weighing several pounds that probably came from anoutehr county, like the '82 suburban on the owners car).

it took another day to put the house (converted warehouse, really) back together again/

fallout represents over a hundred YEARS of clean up and rebuild time. there isn't even a proper town. no elecricty, no internet, no phines, not eeven a damend mail service.

THAT is what im getting at. Learn a habit, it’s not wise to upset a mutie.
But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a Human.
That’s ‘cause Humans don’t eat people when they get irritable. Mutie’s are known to do that.

Green Haired and PProud!!!!

Vault city, san francisco etc do seem like proper towns, pretty addvanced too. about the clean up take a walk aroun the world today and you will find dirty towns with dusty streets and run down buildings. Im sure mail service was in those towns but didn't show since you had no one to send a postcard to.

ya.....
and who built the roads? after 100 years, you should be able to get back to the pre-disaster state. Learn a habit, it’s not wise to upset a mutie.
But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a Human.
That’s ‘cause Humans don’t eat people when they get irritable. Mutie’s are known to do that.

Green Haired and PProud!!!!

fallout represents over a hundred YEARS of clean up and rebuild time. there isn't even a proper town. no elecricty, no internet, no phines, not eeven a damend mail service.

I think fallout1/2 handle this pretty well, we have the big-shot towns (nrc, vault city etc) that's really clean and well built with power, then we got the more shittier towns like junktown etc, most of them are somewhat cleaned, they don't look very pretty but they don't have useless junk laying around.

This is where I will complain on F3, where there is dirt and junk laying around exactly everywhere... even inside towns where people have been living for a very long time... it doesn't take much time to just pick up the trash, sweep the floor and make sure it's just a little bit clean in your own house -.-'

One can't possibly compare a Hurricane to a nuclear disaster in scope and scale. Katrina was a viscious mistress, but you still have the resources of an entire country to help in the rebuilding. You don't have that after a nuclear disaster on the scale depicted in fallout. You have small, poorly organized and desperate groups simply learning how to survive with little to no resources, facilities or expertise, as well as having to fend off the various physical threats that mutations, lawlessness and anarchy would create.

Man at his core is still a barbarian. In a power vaccuum, leaders emerge in different forms. Some benevolent , with the best of motives to try and rebuild what was lost, some clinging to the past(ncr or enclave as examples) while others simply for the power they derive from leading by brute force and taking from others.

But at the end of the day, larger groups might do a better job of doing that "cleanup" as they have a larger pool of people in which to find trained and competent expertise. But as in all things human, growth even in big communities (like say the ncr, the commonwealth etc)is slow as there is still a limited amount of resources, a lot of competition FOR those resources and i could go on and on for pages and pages about the sociological and psychological ramifications in a post-nuclear environment but i'm already boring myself on the topic never mind anyone who was brave enough to read this far

afet 100 years, that excuse wears thin.
ther was an argument made (at another site) why it hasnt happened, but that was another specific case. Learn a habit, it’s not wise to upset a mutie.
But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a Human.
That’s ‘cause Humans don’t eat people when they get irritable. Mutie’s are known to do that.

Green Haired and PProud!!!!

You should read 'A Canticle for Leibowitz.' It details (more or less) the recovery of mankind after a fictional nuclear war from the viewpoint of a Catholic monastery in the ravaged Midwest.

I'd also recommend Lucifer's Hammer and (for the more supernatural types) Swan Song. I put the 'Skill' in 'Kill.'
Wait, what?