I'm no genius, but this game was a large tank for Bethesda. Despite their official press statements...

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/10/bethesda-confirms-layoffs-at-id-software-work-on-future-id-tit/

I would dare to say no additional content is put into this game. This game was no doubt, the biggest upset of the decade. G4 and E3 got all of our hopes up for this game. Even if it ran bug free the game wouldn't have been as great as they made it out to be.

Supposedly the mod tools were going to be available on release, but they still aren't out though Bethesda may be giving up on the game.

No. These are just normal layoffs after a game is made. Mega texture gives developers to hire artist on an as need basis. Most other companys need to keep their artist becuase making good art with limited meory in normal engines is a long process of Trial and error. With mega texture they just hire a [censored] load of artist all at once to make a level with out having to take the time to worry about texture bugets. The second patch and editor are being delayed becasue ati drivers still don't work well.

Yeah, Carmack even automated the process so much it takes almost no training to teach anyone how to use the system.

Those were people with short-term employments, if you know what I mean. I think id is simply taking their time to do things right, no matter how hungry you are for the 'id Studio'-tool.

Those lay-offs are extended workforce that makes the materials and assets of the game, contractors for sound works, voice work ... those are all non-primary employees and are shifting around the business , are kept only at the mass production period of the project

Blizzard Entertainment however likes to keep the highly talented and professional artists under their roof throught project cycles. Old pals and calls them back for re-appearances. Sound, Voice, ...etc directors and actors will stay the same throught the Starcraft 2 expansions. They might not be employed full time but will prioritize accordingly to fit schedules.

More negative news about id / Rage. Damn, people seem to like beating up our old friend.

These layoffs could well have been temporary / contract workers hired to complete the game. Typical journalism trying to make a story out of nothing.

Exactly

Don't let the logos decept you.

ID works independently internally - bethesda has little input of ID decisions and actions. Zenimax controls both financially but only makes high level decisions which are ALL influenced by subdirectors. Doom 3 source code got released because Carmack wanted, not because Zenimax or Bethesda wanted. This was one of the high level decisions which ID negotiatied with Zenimax, Bethesda Publishing and Development studio didn't have a word about it.

Pretty much in the way Blizzard operates inside Activision Blizzard but i think blizzard has less freedom since they're owned by a Media conglomerate Vivendi, Activision history is not gaming either, while Zenimax has been made by bethesda.

Do you think carmack would sell it self to a company like EA who .... would probably rename ID Software into "Bioware Software" .... they wouldn't listen on carmack, it would have been more difficult to release source code under EA. EA has learned a lot since the days of being the industry prime evil - but still Bethesda is better.

The fact bethesda logo is used on ID games is because ID is only a developer doesn't have employees or any stuff focused on publishing. See the logic, why would ID made their own publishing with a new fresh brand ... it's like starting from scratch, using the already established publishing brand is obviously a monumental commercial decision - Rage was to be published by EA , since the merger, they dropped EA obviously.

The days when publishers dictated the development are over. Except the dev studios that are already 100% owned by the publisher. EA and Ubisoft are still on the last place though, they allowed more freedom recently but they still have many decisions to them self.

We now now see independent developers who sign publishing deals with publishers, but the IP ownership and everything about the game, the budget, the release date, is controlled by the devlopment team. The examples are Crytek and Respawn Entertainment


So there are 3 main different types:
- internally "independent" game developer and publisher (zenimax -> id & bethesda ...etc )
- publisher as owner and the only boss (EA)
- publishing-only arrangement ( Crytek, Respawn, Valve )


So the way the last one works is the most safest way. The publisher doesn't own anything. Developer gets majority of the cash.

The first option may have confidential per-employee personal contracts such as one Infinity Ward had with Activision. Infinity Ward was 100% as a studio but not the employees. Infinity ward received royalties which normally 100% owned studio or an internally created one (such as Ubiosft creating a new studio on Vancouver) does not receive, they only get normal pay for the work.


The way music industry works is what has invaded gaming as well. The labels are just the publishers, they don't do anything except buy the ownership of the songs and the actual human being bound to future songs. Todays even worse, now they just sing, they don't even write the songs anymore, ... plus this industry is much darker ...

This is what Bethesda Softworks (a publishing branch) does:
- searches on google (market anolysis)
- answers phone
- talks on forum
- takes feedback to dev team
- marketing operations ( - talks with gaming media sites and sometimes makes private confidential deals with them)
- talks with retail chains
- public inquiries

This is what Zenimax does:
- lawyer contacts
- watches for copyright related stuff (faked products on market)
- financial management (a big office of papers, but they don't make decisions on any game's budget ... )
- contacts with other gaming companies

This is what ID Software and Bethesda Game Studio does:
- the game you play and almost every piece of software behind it (except middleware - licensed)
- manages technical decisions about the game as well as the games budget, target market, target demography, plans for future games, technology research


The problem with the corporate gaming industry (like Activision and EA was) is the communication between developers / community and publisher's awareness. Publishers have mostly been made by non-gamers who only wanted to capitalize and exploit, they're mostly economists who then hire some accountants and totally non-gaming people as employees. These obviously didn't had an idea about the internet and gamers to be able to understand and answer ... this is usually shown via poor technical support and other stuff.

Just imagine gaming would have been if every single of those employees would be a gamer who has been in the same situation with same experiences as the real gamer has been.

This is a matter of time ... the capitalists have power because only back then, the whole gaming thing was still in infantcy, ofcourse it's going better now since those young gamers from 90/80 are growing up and taking control back!

The pre-corporate times (90) have been better simply because no economy-banker [censored] didn't notice the success of the market, the potential behind it, so with their high skills of the corporate world, it was easy to decept a hardworking young developer with talent and real technical skills that are required, with a sweep of the pen they taken control, ... all aboard the fail train. Today the fail train has lost a lot of steam and passangers ... EA had to bow down and start giving developers more freedom and pay for the work , or else they would go bankrupt and you didn't heard much news of it, they obviously kept it very quiet.


This is a big topic and i could go for way more details and explanations. But should be enough to get the idea .. maybe i missed something significant here and there.

Just a couple of things.

Zenimax and Bethesda are the same thing. Look into their history. They have different names as they fill differenet functions.

If id does not make money for themselves and Zenimax then there will be changes enforced from above. I would not be surprised to see no DLC. I will be surprised if we don't get our SDK although it's not impossible, don't forget it's only for the PC and they are hurting in that area.

These days its difficult to call many of them journalists. They just read the piece of paper and put whatever spin on it their company tells them too which, of course, is whatever they are willing to risk saying that makes them the most money. Here's a video of Conan O'brien poking fun at the media putting their spin on something. Its about as sad a statement on freedom of the press and integrity in journalism as you'll ever find, but the only one reporting it is a comedian poking fun at the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GME5nq_oSR4

You have some kind of point? This relates to ... what?

Its self-explanatory. Either you get or you don't and nothing I can say can help.

So in the middle of a thread about layoffs and delays to both our 64 bit executable and the mod tools you decide it's appropriate to go off on journalists. This, I imagine, to further your rather strange belief that somehow bad reviews and users upset about the game are the reason it has not done well, rather than the obvious it's not a very good game.

OK.

It would make more sense to start a new thread rather than hijacking one. It would expose perhaps better manners too, but I guess that's a stretch.

The game has done well. Well enough to recoup it's expenditure (and even make profit), I would guess. 2 million+ sales isn't a "tank", it's mid-table respectability, where id have always been in terms of sales.

Remember - they're best selling game was Doom 3 and that only hit 4+ million. id don't compete in the Halo/CoD league and they never have. Yet it seems that nowadays people's perceptions are so polarised that unless you sell 10+ million you're seen as having tanked. Sorry, not so.