That's a bit of an oversimplification; I wouldn't call the Nords racist so much as I would call them extremely, extremely suspicious of outsiders. The Nords have been at war with various strains of elf since their founding, and now they have bands of elves who are part inquisitors and part KGB/CIA roaming through their lands, grabbing whoever they want to torture and kill. The Empire sold them out, from their point of view, so, really, if you're not a Nord, there's a good chance you're on the side of the enemy.


It's a difficult call, once you know all the history. I still can't decide myself. I have my suspicions about which will be the "canon" outcome, just based on certain gameplay events, but it's still a tough choice. Ulfric's definitely a jerk, but I think an independent Skyrim could give the elves a run for their money - or at least go out like badasses. Titus Mede II, the current Emperor, seems like a decent dude and a brilliant strategist, but the crumbling of the Empire may just be inevitable.

For the most part, it's very accurate. But gonna need a citation here. The Rising Threat indicates that when the altmer are in a bad position, they try to look intimidating. Nothing in the lore has indicated they had any attack force available(Save the redguard one) to continue operations in cyrodiil after Red Ring.

The irony is that while the Stormcloaks fight for bringing Talos back, they are actually dimishing the chances of Talos ever being reintroduced as their war with the Empire weakens humanity's ability to stand against the Thalmor, and the Thalmor are the guys who wants Talos gone.

It's tragi-comic, really.

The Empire wants to bring Talos back just as much as the Stormcloaks, but because they know doing so would mean the death of the Empire at the hands of the Thalmor, they are instead dying pointlessly in a war against the Stormcloaks, and they both love Talos as much.


Emperor Titus Mede II must be a really sad man

The empire really should have let them secede then, and ally with them when they were ready to take the war to the thalmor. No loss of life, both nations are stronger for it.

It's not that simple.

Seceding would fracture the Empire, and weaken them as a whole.

This might also give other factions within the Empire the idea that the Empire is too weak to keep their provinces, and result in more factions seceding.


Skyrim and the Empire stand stronger as a whole than when divided. Unified in a single Empire, they are able to work more effectively together, like two battle hardened warriors whom had shared experiences in the same platoon rather than two strangers meeting eachother for just a single fight.


Also, seceding would bring chaos to Skyrim. Many Nords in Skyrim loves the Empire, and the non-Nords would soon come into conflict with the Nord's racist attitude.

The Forsworn would also benefit from Imperial Troops leaving Skyrim, and many more would die and cause collateral damage worth thousands of gold.

Skyrim's technological and trade developement would probably be stalled a good 200 years after seceding, and they'd have numerous internal conflicts to deal with.


Finally, if the Empire had gone peacefully, Ulfric wouldn't have the 'joined by purpose' ability that he would get by pretending that the Empire was the real enemy of Skyrim, and he couldn't unite them against the Empire.
It's so much easier to unite people when you have a big, bad enemy to fight against. The Thalmor's passive/aggressive attitude isn't as easy to use as Imperial Soldiers rauaging the country side in search for insurgents.

Don't forget that the empire has been taking sneaky pot-shots at the Thalmor the entire time.

Before they withdrew from Hammerfell, they listed a large number of veteran Legionnaires as being too wounded to continue to serve...and left them in Hammerfell. Those completely healthy veteran soldiers helped train, lead and fight, making a huge difference in the Redguard push to get the Thalmor out of Hammerfell.

The Empire also tried to secretly allow Talos worship anyway, by just not taking any real effort to enforce that part of the treaty. That plan was ruined by Ulfric getting loud and obnoxious about the unenforced ban, which alerted the Thalmor, and forced the Empire to enforce the ban.

Up until Ulfric's rebellion, the Empire's focus was on rebuilding the Legions so that they could have round 2 with the Thalmor and beat them. Ulfric screwed that up by forcing the Empire to come and fight in Skyrim, thus delaying the rebuilding of the Legions, and giving the Thalmor an advantage in troop buildup.

Ulfric's rebellion has been like a dream come true for the Thalmor.

The Empire is already crumbling. If they didn't want to be weak they wouldn't have sat on their behind the last 150 years. Mede can't seem to do anything right unless the IC is threatened. Being part of the empire that can't manage its own provinces is a detriment to both sides. There's increased overhead for logistics, plus they have to deal with internal affairs that they don't seem to grasp as well as the nords do.

This racism bit is getting old too. Pretty much everywhere but windhelm gets along fine with the elves. And the elves in windhelm are a special case.(Although a high elf of all people has no issues at all)

What technological development? Have you seen any technological advancements at all in TES over the past 300 years? Why would trade suffer? Both nations would have parted on good terms.

An Empire brings unity and purpose to the nations under it.


By joining into one big body rather than a lot of lesser kingdoms, they become a new and more powerful entetity entirely. It also reduces the chance of rivalry seeing as they are all Imperials now, and the Empire was heavily focused on everyone being equal.

For them to become divided, the Thalmor would rejoice.


Skyrim would also grow poorer without the Empire because most of the rich guys in Skyrim are pro Empire, and if the Empire left, they'd probably leave too.

So the big ol empire's big ol powerful self sure aided valenwood when the Thalmor conquered it. They sure got involved with the sacking of Orsinium. They definitely helped restore order to Elswyr when the moons disappeared. They made all efforts to return black marsh to the empire.

Wait a second...the empire did nothing. My bad.

It's really about what backstory you want to bring for your character. That's why I'm playing two so I can experience both sides.

I have a Nord who is pro-rebellion. He doesn't worship Talos, but he's not going to let anyone, man or god, tell him what he can or can't do.

I also have a dark-elf thief who sees the advantages of maintaining the easily exploitable Imperial system. He also isn't too fond of the racism.

How would any of those provinces be better off on their own?

Try to apply what I said to what you wrote.

If the empire's for the betterment of its people treating everyone as equals...why didn't they help any of those provinces when they had rough times?

Interesting thread. Damned f you do, damned if you don't.

They did offer a small amount of help to valenwood and the orsimer, they where actively supplying the wood elves and sent a few legions to ensure the orc refugees could escape, their main flaw there was not doing enough rather then doing nothing.

Quite so.


One of the few flaws with the Empire is the beauracracy, but when the need is made evident, they are far more capable of action than any single nations.

Indeed. I could also argue for the imperials side though.

If you want a military victory, I don't think the imperials are quite the way to go. They haven't quite got it together. They don't have a good leader. I think Mede started to realize his mistakes partway through the war. He wasn't gathering any intel. You don't let an army that vastly outnumbers yours march up and surround your forces. I think if you go imperial you should go imperial on the basis that you intend to reform the entire empire. It's been apathetic for far too long. Turn your character into the new stormcrown from the north. Become the shezzarine you were born to be. Kill all the elves. (A favored pasttime of many a shezzarine)

Either side you choose, it's definitely time to fight back against the Thalmor. The situation the thalmor hoped to stop with the banning of Talos has happened regardless(The introduction of another shezzarine). Your character can remind the thalmor of the fury of whitestrake once more.