Any way to reduce shadow striping? Or improve shadows at all : V

» Thu May 31, 2012 5:57 pm

Due to my hardware, I am forced to run this game with medium shadow quality. I'm noticing a lot of shadow striping outdoors. (Indoors is fixed by a shadow striping mod.) Is there anything I can do about this? Some way to reduce the distance that these nasty shadows are cast maybe? .INI tweaks?

» Thu May 31, 2012 10:30 pm

.ini tweaks have helped me a lot.

Go to documents/my games/skyrim and find skyrimprefs.ini

Play with the following variables. These are the numbers I run with and my system is like 3 years old. Video card is GeForce 8800GT. Don't know if that tells you anything.

iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=4096
iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=4096
iShadowMapResolution=2048
iShadowMaskQuarter=7
fInteriorShadowDistance=3000.0000
fShadowDistance=3000.0000

At the end of the day, if you can't make them look good, you can drop both ShadowDistance values to 0 and shadows will go away altogether, but then the whole world will be kind of dark and weird looking. ShadowMaskQuarter is also a big deal, try different numbers from 0 to 7 and see what works best. The resolutions will just improve/reduce jaggedness and stripiness. Hope this helps.

» Thu May 31, 2012 10:31 pm

Make sure that bDrawLandShadows is set to 0. Land shadows never look quite right, which is why this setting is disabled by default, but that doesn't stop many tweak guides from suggesting that it be turned on.

» Thu May 31, 2012 11:24 am

Those tweaks will effectively increase shadow quality to beyond Ultra, though. The distance and resolution of the shadow maps is precisely what the shadow detail setting in the user interface controls.

» Thu May 31, 2012 12:00 pm

fShadowBiasScale=4.0000

Makes the shadows a bit pixel edged, but it gets rid of the stripes. You can probably go with a value of 1; I have it at 4 because I'm a firm believer in overkill.

» Thu May 31, 2012 12:26 pm

fShadowBiasScale=4.0000

Makes the shadows a bit pixel edged, but it gets rid of the stripes. You can probably go with a value of 1; I have it at 4 because I'm a firm believer in overkill.

+1 i like your answer because it works for the shadow striping also i like this :biggrin:

( I'm a firm believer in overkill. )

» Thu May 31, 2012 8:57 am

Play with the following variables. These are the numbers I run with and my system is like 3 years old. Video card is GeForce 8800GT. Don't know if that tells you anything.

iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=4096
iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=4096
iShadowMapResolution=2048
iShadowMaskQuarter=7
fInteriorShadowDistance=3000.0000
fShadowDistance=3000.0000

FYI:

It seems to me, that after 1.5, iShadowMaskQuarter no longer is a relevant parameter. Whatever you set it to (or allow the launcher quality presets to set it to, like 3 in case of Low or Medium) it reverts to 4, or at least that value is updated into the ini file (unless it is set to read only) by the game engine. Experimenting with it in 1.4 seemingly changed which marginal pixels on the shadow's edge would or would not be part of the shadow. That effect seemed to be random-like rather than having any clear pattern, and I would say that any claim that a specific value would sharpen the shadows (or something) could perhaps be illusory or a question of pure chance in a specific instance.

And by the way, I also have an 8800GT (with 1024MB VRAM). But anyway, I think the shadow settings are likely to tax the CPU rather than the GPU. I am running a dual core, 2.6 Ghz, socket 939, AMD FX-60 from several years ago (I don't even remember how old it is).

I would start by maxing out iShadowMapResolution at 4096 (as in Ultra; apparently this setting more or less controls the overall amount of resources committed to shadows and generally improves their resolution), and keeping it there (going any higher would be detrimental, unfortunately) if your CPU performance allows it (which it should, unless it is really marginal). Then experiment with the other parameters. I personally like having fShadowDistance at 5000 (this essentially determines how large the area is over which shadows are calculated, and increasing it creates shadows further away from the player but because it spreads out the shadow pixel map, it decreases the effective resolution that is achieved locally), and iBlurDeferredShadowMask at 3 (not included in the list above, and controls blurring of the shadow edge), but that is a question of taste. With these settings I also seem to have reduced or no exterior shadow striping without having to adjust fShadowBiasScale from its default.

P.S.
Also keep in mind, that real life shadows are seldom sharp. I stand 190 cm tall, and when the Sun shines at a 45 degree angle, the shadow of the top of my head on level ground is blurred over a distance of 2.5 cm, because the sun is not a point source of light, but a disk with a diameter. A tree branch at the height of 10 m would have to be several cm thick to leave any noticeable shadow at all.

» Thu May 31, 2012 8:06 pm

It seems to me, that after 1.5, iShadowMaskQuarter no longer is a relevant parameter. Whatever you set it to (or allow the launcher quality presets to set it to, like 3 in case of Low or Medium) it reverts to 4, or at least that value is updated into the ini file (unless it is set to read only) by the game engine.

Thanks for mentioning that. I checked my ini recently (after my shadows became all weird and ugly) and saw a value of 4 ... and thought to myself, "When did I change that? I could have sworn I set it to 7." Maybe I'll have to try making that file read-only :wacko:

Also keep in mind, that real life shadows are seldom sharp. I stand 190 cm tall, and when the Sun shines at a 45 degree angle, the shadow of the top of my head on level ground is blurred over a distance of 2.5 cm, because the sun is not a point source of light, but a disk with a diameter. A tree branch at the height of 10 m would have to be several cm thick to leave any noticeable shadow at all.

My problem isn't blurring, it's pixelization. The opposite of blurring. No matter what I do, the game seems to keep gravitating back to those horrible jagged shadows it loves so much.

iBlurDeferredShadowMask at 3 (not included in the list above, and controls blurring of the shadow edge)

I didn't know that either; thanks for the tip!

» Thu May 31, 2012 7:36 pm

Thanks for mentioning that. I checked my ini recently (after my shadows became all weird and ugly) and saw a value of 4 ... and thought to myself, "When did I change that? I could have sworn I set it to 7." Maybe I'll have to try making that file read-only :wacko:

Well, my guess is that it probably makes no essential difference, but who can tell...

My problem isn't blurring, it's pixelization. The opposite of blurring. No matter what I do, the game seems to keep gravitating back to those horrible jagged shadows it loves so much.

Perhaps you could try out the other value settings I suggested?

Anyway, my understanding is, that you can reduce pixelization by:
- Increasing iShadowMapResolution (possible values: 512 - 1024 - 2048 - 4096, more than that would spell trouble)
- Reducing fShadowDistance

» Thu May 31, 2012 12:45 pm

.... if you can't make them look good, you can drop both ShadowDistance values to 0 and shadows will go away altogether...

Thanks for that, I did not know how to turn them off completely and since I've done that the game looks ok again.

» Thu May 31, 2012 5:16 pm

Yeah, I don't like dropping fShadowDistance. I tried it and it looks too weird to just have this small circle around you with shadows in it and everything brightly lit outside that circle. I will try cranking up iBlurDeferredShadowMask and see if that helps.

And iShadowMaskQuarter definitely does make a visible difference. When the system decided to change it back on me from 7 to 4, shadows went back to looking horrendous and bizarre. Like, the entire landscape was flashing with shadows, kind of like lightning except dark instead of bright. When I changed it back to 7 that effect went away. I wonder if the system has reset it to 4 again.

EDIT: glad if I helped, T A-M :smile:

» Thu May 31, 2012 9:49 pm

@Zombra

Well, I noticed that you have deviated much from the following default settings:
- iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=1024
- iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048

I don't really know what those settings accomplish, but they are not changed by any of the launcher quality presets as far as I can tell, so I might speculate that perhaps you are in unknown territory there. I repeat that this is pure speculation, but you might try setting those back to default and see what happens? I have them at default, and with my other settings I think I have fairly passable shadows. Still, I can only speak of what I see on my own system, and the world is full of wonders after all...

» Thu May 31, 2012 11:46 am

Well, since we have the same video card, your advice will probably be pertinent, and is greatly appreciated

I'm going to try the blur thing first; the shadow edges are my only complaint right now. If that works, I'll leave all else as is. My other adjustments are the result of a long process of trial and error, and I'm pretty happy with the results in a broad sense.

» Thu May 31, 2012 8:40 am

I always allow Skyrim to create fresh new ini files when it is updated. Then I manually add back all my changes (actually I use for that a program called WinMerge, which is very handy when comparing two text files). In this case it is obvious that 1.5 introduced some kind of change in shadow calculations, so I would think that starting from fresh ini files and retesting every setting would be prudent, because there is no telling what kind of impact non-default ini settings might have. Sure, if you have many changes done overtime, that is not fun at all. Anyway, just testing fresh ini files might be worth a try.

About the blurring parameter (iBlurDeferredShadowMask): Its usefulness is restricted by how it seems to work: Setting it very high (I think 7 is maximum) to blur the edges of shadows at your feet, if they are very jagged, blurs distant shadows to the extent that they vanish totally. It seems to me almost as if blurring is measured at the screen rather than where the shadows fall, which makes it a bit awkward.

Anyway, this is my current skyrimprefs.ini, that seem to work nice enough for me, at least in terms of shadows.

Spoiler

[General]
fBrightLightColorB=1.0000
fBrightLightColorG=1.0000
fBrightLightColorR=1.0000
iStoryManagerLoggingEvent=-1
bEnableStoryManagerLogging=0
[Imagespace]
bDoDepthOfField=1
iRadialBlurLevel=0
[Display]
iBlurDeferredShadowMask=3
fInteriorShadowDistance=3000.0000
fShadowDistance=5000.0000
iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=1024
iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048
iShadowSplitCount=2
iMaxAnisotropy=1
fLeafAnimDampenDistEnd=4600.0000
fLeafAnimDampenDistStart=3600.0000
fTreesMidLODSwitchDist=3600.0000
fGamma=1.0000
fDecalLOD2=1500.0000
fDecalLOD1=1000.0000
fSpecularLODStartFade=900.0000
fShadowLODStartFade=200.0000
fLightLODStartFade=2100.0000
iTexMipMapMinimum=0
iTexMipMapSkip=0
iWaterMultiSamples=0
iMultiSample=4
iShadowMode=3
bTreesReceiveShadows=1
bDrawLandShadows=1
bFull Screen=1
iSize H=960
iSize W=1280
fMeshLODFadePercentDefault=1.2000
fMeshLODFadeBoundDefault=256.0000
fMeshLODLevel2FadeTreeDistance=2048.0000
fMeshLODLevel1FadeTreeDistance=2844.0000
fMeshLODLevel2FadeDist=3072.0000
fMeshLODLevel1FadeDist=4096.0000
iScreenShotIndex=1
bShadowMaskZPrepass=0
bMainZPrepass=0
iMaxSkinDecalsPerFrame=3
iMaxDecalsPerFrame=10
bFloatPointRenderTarget=0
sD3DDevice="NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT "
bFXAAEnabled=0
iShadowMapResolution=4096
fShadowBiasScale=0.3000
iShadowMaskQuarter=4
iAdapter=0
iPresentInterval=1
iShadowFilter=3
bTransparencyMultisampling=0
bDrawShadows=1
[Grass]
b30GrassVS=0
fGrassStartFadeDistance=4000.0000
fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=7000.0000
fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0.0000
[MAIN]
bGamepadEnable=0
bCrosshairEnabled=1
fHUDOpacity=1.0000
bSaveOnPause=0
bSaveOnTravel=0
bSaveOnWait=0
bSaveOnRest=0
fSkyCellRefFadeDistance=150000.0000
[GamePlay]
bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=1
bShowQuestMarkers=1
iDifficulty=2
[Interface]
bDialogueSubtitles=1
bGeneralSubtitles=1
fMouseCursorSpeed=1.0000
bShowCompass=1
[Controls]
fGamepadHeadingSensitivity=1.0000
fMouseHeadingSensitivity=0.0250
bAlwaysRunByDefault=1
bInvertYValues=0
bGamePadRumble=0
bMouseAcceleration=0
[Particles]
iMaxDesired=750
[SaveGame]
fAutosaveEveryXMins=60.0000
[AudioMenu]
fAudioMasterVolume=2.0000
fVal7=1.0000
uID7=0
fVal6=1.0000
uID6=0
fVal5=1.0000
uID5=0
fVal4=1.0000
uID4=0
fVal3=1.0000
uID3=94881
fVal2=0.4000
uID2=466532
fVal1=1.0000
uID1=554685
fVal0=0.8000
uID0=1007612
[Clouds]
fCloudLevel2Distance=262144.0000
fCloudLevel1Distance=32768.0000
fCloudLevel0Distance=16384.0000
fCloudNearFadeDistance=9000.0000
[TerrainManager]
fTreeLoadDistance=25000.0000
fBlockMaximumDistance=100000.0000
fBlockLevel1Distance=32768.0000
fBlockLevel0Distance=20480.0000
fSplitDistanceMult=0.7500
bShowLODInEditor=0
[NavMesh]
fObstacleAlpha=0.5000
fCoverSideHighAlpha=0.8000
fCoverSideLowAlpha=0.6500
fEdgeFullAlpha=1.0000
fEdgeHighAlpha=0.7500
fEdgeLowAlpha=0.5000
fTriangleFullAlpha=0.7000
fTriangleHighAlpha=0.3500
fTriangleLowAlpha=0.2000
fLedgeBoxHalfHeight=25.0000
fEdgeDistFromVert=10.0000
fEdgeThickness=10.0000
fPointSize=2.5000
[Trees]
bRenderSkinnedTrees=1
uiMaxSkinnedTreesToRender=20
[Decals]
uMaxDecals=100
bDecals=1
bSkinnedDecals=1
uMaxSkinDecals=35
uMaxSkinDecalsPerActor=20
[LOD]
fLODFadeOutMultObjects=9.0000
fLODFadeOutMultItems=9.2000
fLODFadeOutMultActors=10.0000
fLODFadeOutMultSkyCell=1.0000
[Launcher]
bEnableFileSelection=1
bShowAllResolutions=1
uLastAspectRatio=1
[BlurShaderHDR]
bDoHighDynamicRange=1
[BlurShader]
bUseBlurShader=0
[Water]
iWaterReflectHeight=512
iWaterReflectWidth=512
bUseWaterDisplacements=1
bUseWaterRefractions=1
bUseWaterReflections=1
bUseWaterDepth=1

» Thu May 31, 2012 2:07 pm

Hmmm, good info. I will definitely be able to take something away from this thread to give me better visuals. Thanks again Inki