A spin off of the first infuriating friend thread I had awhile back... We're arguing the same thing again: My argument is that the dragons are evil while she finds their actions justifiable. She refuses to touch the main quest, and therefore she only knows the story due to my conversations with her.

Our most recent argument over this involved Odahviing. I simply stated that he was cool, and since she's such a dragon fanatic (did I mention that she's obsessed with dragons?), she was interested in him. I said that you summoned him to a battle before ensnaring him in a trap to which she immediately said,

._. Wait, you TRAP him?
Yeah, you lure him to Dragonsreach after using a call to summon him and then you trap hm on the porch.
Lovely. Not only did you force a dragon to fight against his will, but you were too cowardly to even fight him fairly. Nice job.
:l What? First off, it's a dragon, capable of taking on legions of men. Secondly, it's a DRAGON. Why should I play fair?
You're always talking about playing hero, you should know that forcing a dragon to fight you is [censored] up. -.-
Didn't even force him. The shout doesn't force him to come. He just chooses to answer it.
Whatever. What happened after you trapped him like an animal?
Pretty sure he is an animal. And he said he'd help me defeat Alduin if I freed him.
Oh, so not only are you a coward, but you're a blackmailer too.

And it kind of goes on like that. That's an exact copy/paste from the chat we were on, though I replaced our names. Seriously. She's pissed for the most ridiculous reason, claiming that dragon slaying is wrong when they're the ones instigating the attacks.

Whenever I press why she's such a fan of dragons, she states "Because the stormcloaks are racist bastards and the Empre tried to cut off my head for no reason. A dragon saved me, so as far as I'm concerned, they're the good guys."

...

Sigh. Anybody want to give their two cents on this?

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level then beat you on experience

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxNVhAfAcRY
use your teachings wisely, dovahkiin.

lol. That's a good one.

Well, first off, tell her the dragon didn't try to save you, HE CAME THERE TO KILL YOU. Second off, its in dragons nature to attack humans, did she not talk to Paarthurnax? And hating imperials over the actions of a small few is small minded and just...yea. Ok I really have nothing to say to this....Stupidity level is high in this one....

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fight-one-eating-birth-dagon

Good pont lol Did you mention you don't fight the dragon you trap you just ask him where to find Alduin? As far as I see it you call him there to ask him a question and later befriend him after defeating Alduin.

The reason why your friend is right is because your motives are poorly defined.
Edit: The reason why you are both wrong, is because your arguments are poorly defined.

She is arguing that it is evil to kill dragons because they are not inherently evil.
You are arguing that they are inherently evil and thus they should be killed. (Correct me if I'm wrong on these though.)

Despite the developers (I believe) wanting to create dragons which are evil by definition, they did not do this. To me, dragons seem no more evil than humans and I really find the argument that dragons are evil (and thus only have intentions to harm) very clearly false.

You should be arguing that your motives for killing dragons are not evil, because you are doing it because it is needed to save the world which they want to destroy. You have a right to try to defend yourself. But do not take this argument to the extreme of saying all that you destroy deserves to be destroyed.

This.


And this. She is misinterpreting the actions of the beginning of the game. You NARROWLY escape being destroyed by the dragon yourself. It had no intention of saving anybody. If anything she should be thanking the "bloodthirsty" Hadvar or the "racist" Ralof for saving her life (whomever she chose to go with into Helgen Keep).

And I don't want to be insulting to you or your friend but her entire position is well...pathetic. If she is seriously taking a moral stance on the killing of FICTIONAL beasts in a VIDEO GAME, she needs to get out more. This is more pathetic than PETA members who defend the lives of REAL animals over REAL humans. I'm sorry, but get over it, they are not real. Its a video game.


In the end she is the one missing out. The game is great without dragons (I didn't even start on the main quest until I was level 18 or so) but it is even greater with the dragons. So let her sit on her fantasy laden moral high horse while the rest of the world gets on with their real lives who like to play fun games every once in a while.

Once again, I am sorry if I offended you but I'm just being honest. There is probably no arguing with that type of mentality.

I'm pretty sure it was just a fun theoretical debate between friends. Your comment is not so fun though...

LoL! looks like girlfriend material. XP (u know you'll get to ridiculous discussions/arguments with a gf after a few months/years being together so why not just skip all those and just get to the fightin'?) LoLoLoLoL

Seriously? The only dragons I've ever fought have been doing their damnedest to roast and eat humans.

Ultimately, if people are absolutely certain about a certain character, faction or race, they will defend their position to the death and will probably delude themselves into believing an incorrect version of events even if they fly in the face of all the established facts.


Various people in the fan fiction community as especially vocal in that kind of way if they have a favourite character who they impose certain feelings on which are counter to their canonical nature. On the Mass Effect 2 official forum I remember a guy defending a thread almsot 48 hours straight and swelling up to like 30 pages in a single day defending why a specific character was in fact a good and kind person when in game they're hell bent on eating your mind (Morinth for the record ;p). I know even i can be a bit like that with the Aldmeri Dominion seeing how nice they've been to the khajiit (Even if they're total bastards to the rest of the world and will probably turn on the khajiit the moment it becomes useful)



...sadly, it even happens in the real world, people delude themselves into believing their world view is reality when it flies in the face of reality itself. (Many of these people end up incarcerated, though sometimes they get given their own country and everyone has to pretend their delusions have validity to save offending them)

If I'm not mistaken you speak about another argue with her. The previous time you where trying to convince her out of her dragon hype, isn't it? Then I think I suggest you to don't insist. Now my advice is to not talk to her about dragons ever again and if she starts, be ambiguous and change the subject as fast as you can.

This was said before in the other thread, I thought it was resolved already... Let her stick to your beliefs, and you stick to yours. You're both having fun, right?

Have her make a new character and do the tutorial up until you have to decide to follow the imperial or follow the stormcloak out of Helgen and have her stand there and not follow either.

See if the dragon saves her then.