After updating to 1.5, I started a new character, became a werewolf and ended up in Riften to stir up some trouble. I decided to see what kind of damage a level 1 werewolf could do, so I trashed the town. Anyway, all the werewolf finishing moves seem to be broken. When the finishing move should start, the camera jumps, like it's moving to where it should start. But my character disappears and the target just stands there (like an idle animation). The sounds continue like the finishing move is in progress, and when it's done the target drops dead and the camera (and my character) return to normal. This is happening every single time.

When I went down into the ratway, twice I have had the kill cam just get stuck, and at the end of the finishing move, the camera just sits there but the rest of the gate world returns to normal. Trying to use console commands to unstick the camera don't work.

I thought this might just be something in Riften, but it seems to be doing it in the other places in the world I've tried as well. Are werewolf finishing moves known to be broken in 1.5? I'm running the vanilla game with no mods (except the Bethesda hi-res texture pack) or INI tweaks.

- B

Yeah, is it just me or did 1.5 break werewolves completely?

At first I thought it was just Riften, but it isn't. It happens everywhere. I started (yet another) new character and quickly played through to become a werewolf. Same thing.

Doing a finishing move with the werewolf has a good chance, maybe %50 or better, of freezing the camera in place and nothing can unstick it. The game world continues on as normal but of course it's completely unplayable.

As much as I hate to say it, I guess werewolves are not unplayable until 1.6, Sigh.

No mods, no INI tweaks here. Verified game files for fun - nothing found.

I have a similar problem - I think it's a new kill cam, because I can still get the kill where my char jumps on the opponent and tears them to death, but I occasionally get this "stuck cam" one as well. It's quite annoying as it completely throws you out of the game and also often places you in a position where you're unable to react quickly enough to defend yourself when the cinematic ends.

On a semi-related note, I also recently had a bug were I triggered a killcam on a guy who triggered a killcam on me, resulting in me killing him, but dying, and my corpse reanimating, leading to me making a thudding physics noise everytime I moved and shaking. That was fixed my saving and loading though, so it was okay.

After much testing, I can confirm that werewolf killcams are broken. The breakage seems to take one of three forms. If there is a method to the patten, I can't tell what it is. For the record, clean install of Skyrim updated to the latest patch, the Hi-Res DLC downloaded but unchecked in the launcher and no mods loaded.

- The camera just freezes in place, while the kill-move seems to proceed normally in-game. Sometimes the target will just stand there until falling down at the end. The camera unfreezes and the game returns to normal.
- The camera freezes in place but no kill-move. The game world just continues normally. Nothing can unfreeze the camera (TFC, etc.). Game totally unplayable and needs a restart.
- (Rarely) Camera freezes in place, kill-move proceeds just like above but the target doesn't die. Camera unfreezes and combat continues "as normal".
- (Rarely) Kill-move and kill-cam works normally.

I'm pretty bummed as I really liked trying to get finishing flairs with the werewolf. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that some of the moves don't trigger at all and the rest are generally bugged. What really svcks is that the camera freeze happens enough to make playing with the werewolf (and having to restart without saving) not a whole lot of fun.

Hopefully this will be fixed in 1.6? My questions are:

- Has anyone else noticed this problem? It happens enough for me that anyone who plays as a werewolf couldn't help but notice.
- Does Bethedsa know about this bug?

I only seem to get the first type of bug - Also I think I'm invincible until the camera control returns, so it's not too bad.

I hope this does get fixed though, it's rather annoying.

Hmm, I sometimes get similar glitches with normal human vs human killcams.
Without the total game lock-up though, mostly it works fine.
Rarely I'll KM someone using the power of AIR!!! (With the sounds of the sword swinging, swoosh-swish-smack, magic. ;p)

Yes, I forgot to add that when the kill-move is playing, it seems the player is invincible. I've heard many people say that the kill moves only happen when you're fighting the last enemy, and that has not been my experience. It's not uncommon for me to get a kill move right in the middle of combat with a group (particularly with the werewolf). The good news is that you seem to be invincible while the move is playing out.

When the camera freezes and the game continues on (no kill move) my character is certainly not invincible. it is all pretty annoying, but the frozen cam, no kill move is game breaking - particularly if it's been a while since saving.

The only problems I've had with human-vs-human kill moves have been the rest of the stuff people have already reported: the target moving or falling down during the kill move and some of the kill moves I really liked from pre-1.5 seem to be either missing or just a LOT less likely to trigger.

But yeah, the kill move breakage for the werewolf has really hurt gameplay for me.

I use a killmove mod (The Dance of Death, 1.5 ready), maybe try that mod to test your Werewolf KM's?
Maybe, just maybe, it fixes it for you, then you can play Skyrim again.

Half tempted to make a Werewolf myself just to see.

While on the subject of werewolf game breakage...

Pre-1.5 I was wondering what the bug about keeping weapons equipped when a werewolf was all about. It never happened for me, even when wielding Dawnstar (which is supposed to be one of the major triggers). Now, post-1.5, it seems like it happens all the time - both with swords/daggers and with arrows I have equipped (but not with bows). So something changed to make that happen a lot more often.

Hopefully they will fix the long standing bug where I can only get the two finishing moves (knock target down and slash with claws or knock target down a tear throat out). The rest of the finishing moves I cannot get unless I unequip all weapons and take a (fist) swing or two WITH BOTH HANDS before changing to werewolf form. Then the other finishing moves will work for me.

Again, hopefully Bethesda knows about these problems and they are on "the list".

To the comment about using a KM mod. Yeah, I've been holding back on trying out a lot of mods because it takes the authors time to catch up to the latest releases and, honestly, I've been nervous about investing time into a character since the 1.2 patch broke so many things for the character I had 50+ hours into. And I read a lot of problems from people using mods... So I've just been kind of screwing around with a new character, not doing anything seriously. Hence, spending a lot of time in werewolf form terrorizing the cities, towns, countryside, etc. So... yeah, lots of potential kill moves.

But, yeah, that is a good suggestion. I should try and see how the game responds. Thanks.

I feel your pain brother, many a character has been "killed" by game-breaking bugs.

These days I just play Skyrim for Skyrim, no longer care about my character so long as they can walk from point A to B and slash up a few baddies. svcks that my playstyle has dropped through the floor, but I'd rather a hack slash game, than a character with a story that I'll never be able to play again, any moment.

Exactly. I guess it shows how much fun Skyrim is, creating a new character, playing quests different ways, exploring or just enjoying the scenery. I had two characters with 50+ hours each ruined becaue of game breaking bugs. But it's still a lot of fun to play around in Skyrim. I never would have realized that a brand new character could clear out Riverwood and a new werewolf could clear out Whiterun if I hadn't been forced to start new characters.

I'm glad Bethesda is continuing to work on Skyrim, adding features and trying to fix things. I think that's great. But it is frustrating having to restart games or use console cheats to advance your character. And some of the fixes, like the scripting fixes, it looks like you have to start a new game to get those benefits.

Ok, I tried the dance-of-death mod, and in both Whiterun and Riften the werewolf finishing moves were still broken for me. So it looks like it's something in the base game.

Shame to hear.
Yet another thing they broke in 1.5, what did they fix again?
"We heard you were getting bored with bugs in your game, so we fixed them up, and made some new ones for you to hunt down! Enjoy our game"

Yeah. Game and quest breaking bugs made me stop playing "for real" back about version 1.2. I've been starting new characters and then just fooling around, but I keep running into game breakers, so I've been going for a werewolf as quickly as possible and then terrorizing Skyrim to exact some measure of revenge.

Problems I see with the werewolf (to keep this thread somewhat relevent):

- Kill moves badly broken in 1.5. Pre-1.5 there was often a pause where the KM would start and then the game would freeze for 5-10 seconds before the move would play out. But at least there wasn't a chance of it ruining a game.
- I'm pretty bold about where I change. I have been "seen" when changing inside door-closed rooms in the inns before, so I think the "did anybody see the PC change" logic is broken.
- Howl of terror effecting followers (particularly werewolf followers) gets annoying pretty fast.
- It is possible to kill nearly everyone in the Thieves Guild without consequence using the dash-and-attack move. If you're powerful enough to do one-hit-kills, there is no consequence. Everyone else just stands around and watches. Could cause other problems in the game, I'd think.
- Sometimes, when using the dash-and-attack to knock someone down, an NPC will get knocked down and then stay down, yet move around and interact normally. They just slide around on the floor, laying down. It's... strange.
- Very rarely, when using the dash-and-attack to knock someone down, then running away (damn guards...) - when coming back, the NPC is leaning. I don't have a screeshot, but they just lean over at maybe a 30-degree angle, until killed.
- If you change near a dead body and use "Feed" immediately after you change (as soon as it becomes available), the game will sometimes (often?) get stuck and not allow you to howl.
- Sometimes, usually when feeding, you loose the ability to howl (since that usually leads to my untimely death, I can't say if it works again after changing back and back again).
- Sometimes when changing in a crowd and trying to start trouble, NPCs will enter combat and then just stand there, and not attack. Sometimes they start fighting if attacked, but (rarely) they don't. They just take it like good Nords.
- Sinding doesn't fight the hunters after patch 1.5 for me. He sometimes fights the first one or two but they after that just stands there no matter what the hunters do to him. But of course if I hit him 3 times...
- Changing under water or on a horse is still a recipe for strange behavior.
- Post 1.5, it seems that my werewolf often keeps the arrow quiver and bladed one-handed weapons equipped. That *really* svcks when wielding an iron dagger.
- The very first time you change, the game "cleans up the mess" if you've killed guards, but if you kill NPCs they stay dead.
- When "sheathing claws" in beast form, could the 3rd person camera get any closer to your character?

So, that's the list of issues I've seen with the werewolf as of 1.5. Not all of them are new for 1.5, but they've all bitten me (no pun intended).

It seems like you put alot of time into this, hopefully Beth will see this thread as you have provided plenty of info for them to go off.

As for the Sinding glitch, damn, that's a real shame, on this character I was actually going to go for the Saviors Hide.

Oh, I linked this thread in a new thread on the General Discussion page, a guy posted the same issue as you about KM's, and he is on 360, so it's not just PC.

Hopefully that other thread will get more views and people will click through to this one.

Here is the thread if you would like to chime in there also.
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1367344-werewolf-bug-post-patch-15/

Well, it's good to know it's not just a PC glitch. Yeah, hopefully it's on a Bethesda list somewhere to be fixed. If it's a problem on the consoles as well, then it's that much more likely to get fixed.

A while back, someone from Bethesda (Todd maybe?) said they were going to fix the engine bugs first and the content bugs second. Hopefully by now we're nearing the end of the engine bugs and will be moving into content soon. I'm hoping that many of the bugs on my werewolf list are somewhere in the mix to get fixed. It's great they included werewolves in Skyrim, but hopefully it's not such a niche thing that werewolf bugs are waaay down on the list to get fixed!

Oh boy!...hehe..that made my day!
Iam sick of being used as beta tester for a big company and even pay for it....and all the new bugs introduced by new patches...stoped playing skyrim awhile ago and right now there is no reason to play it again.With all the bugs and stuff going on..no dlc so far..i dont know really...i think ill be playing Dragons Dogma when its out.