This has been bugging me for a few days


Basically, Delphine and Esbern gave you the middle finger by using "The Blades' Oath" as an excuse. The problem being I don't think that the Blades have ever had any connection with dragons at all




For one, the predecessor of the Blades, the so-called "Dragonguard", did not exist until November 2011. It is said in Skyrim that the Akaviri invaders pledged themselves to Reman Cyrodiil the moment the guy Shouted at them. This does not click with the Pale Pass Fort's ending, in which the remaining Akaviri forces still believe that Reman is a threat. If anything, the Akaviri forces should have reminded one of their headquarters to surrender. Remanada in Oblivion only said that the "loyal knights" descended from old Reman's bodyguards, but who these bodyguards are were never specified




Second, even if the Dragonguard are actually the surrendered Akavir forces, the Blades still had nothing to do with Dragons. The Dragonguard were founded in the 1st Era, and 2 Eras later they're spec ops. You'd think that during the course of these two Eras, in which nothing about "dragon problem" was mentioned, they'd start to use a different oath than "I'll serve you my lord, for you are the Dragonborn"




Third, even if they did not change their oath even by one bit, was there even any oath at all? In Skyrim it is said that they were specifically looking for a Dragonborn, and they were not in Tamriel to look for dragons. Which means that while the Akaviri were probably capable of slaying dragons, dragons were the last thing in their mind. Or at least dragons are second to Dragonborn in their mind




Fourth, let's say that they were looking for dragons "as a side quest" because hey, you don't go out of your home continent that frequently, I doubt that dragons still existed by then. Specifically, that Alduin is still a threat by then.

Remember: there was this man named Ysgramor, who drove the Mer out of Skyrim. You'd think that if dragons was still around rauaging the lands, people would stick together and forget about the war altogether, or at least the Mer would've been fighting off dragons and Ysgramor would've took note about them. Which means that by the time Ysgramor fought off the Mer, either dragons had not yet existed, or dragons were no longer a threat



Fifth, let's say that Alduin appeared after Ysgramor fought off the Mer. The Akaviri forces who would later become the Dragonguard came to Tamriel and was defeated by Reman Cyrodiil. If Alduin was still a threat by then, the Akaviri would be fighting off the dragons and either ally themselves with the Tamrielan forces or just fight them off by themselves. But there is no historical account about dragons near or before Reman Cyrodiil's reign. This means that by the time the Akaviri invaded Tamriel, dragons were no longer a threat. This means that the Akaviri forces, the later-Dragonguard, has nothing to do with Alduin's actions altogether.


Sixth, even if you that Alduin's dragons are the same dragons that the Tsaesci hunted, it is simply not possible. According to the book Mysterious Akavir, the Tsaesci managed to enslave the Red Dragons, and while the Black Dragons fled to Po Tun, a great war was raged that ended up killing all the dragons. Meaning that not a single dragon is left in Akaviri, meaning it is not possible for the dragons to have fled Akaviri to join up with Alduin in Tamriel.

This means that Alduin's dragons and the Akaviri dragons are both different dragons. Perhaps dragons are all the same in Mundus (in the same sense that all Men share the same physical characteristic), but it does not make Alduin's dragons related to Akaviri dragons whatsoever.

This means the Akaviri forces, the later-Dragonguard, couldn't have known just what did Alduin do back in Tamriel (or Skyrim)


Seventh, let's say that perhaps Alduin commanded the dragons in Akavir from the relative safety of Tamriel, perhaps the Akaviri simply had a hatred so deep against dragons in general.

It still does not make 100% sense.

Remember: the Voice was taught to humans during the dragons' reign as a way to fight the dragons, but up until now, aside from being a Dragonborn, only the Nords can use a Shout. Reman Cyrodiil was a Dragonborn, so he does not count (besides, his race was never been specified). Tiber Septim was a Nord, so are the Greybeards, and there is no historical account of the usage of Shout by any other party. This heavily implies that the dragons actually did not enslave the mankind, but simply enslaved the Nords, which would make the whole "The Akavir knows of Alduin's deeds" even more confusing


Lastly, let's say that the Akavir simply hate Dragons

This does not mean that they have anything regarding dragons in their Oath

As I have pointed out before, it is simply not possible for dragons to be a major threat (or perhaps even exist any longer) by the time the Akaviri forces swore loyalty to Reman Cyrodiil. Even if they were, the later-Dragonguard were looking for a Dragonborn to serve him, and not a single time have they ever complained about the lack of dragon-killing during their time as bodyguards and as spec ops




All this boils down into one question:
Which part of Blades' Oath would specify anything about dragons? Especially after such a long absence? And what right do the shadow of Blades have to invoke it?

cheese? cheese is the answer to everything.

The Blades in Skyrim are so full of BS.

Facts. Look at all those facts. Laying everywhere. Where are my boots?

I myself was hard pressed (still am) of drawing any connection to the Blades of OB and MW to the Blades of Skyrim. This is one of the places the game writters failed IMO. A lot of it, as you have pointed out, just didn't make sense. I would have loved to have seen or felt that connection to the Blades of MW and OB. I think that would have helped me a lot in finding any love for the Skyrim Blades.

I don't mind the Skyrim Blades, as long as they stay in Skyrim. I liked how the Dark Brotherhood and the Blades are pathetic wastes of space, but as long as any other Blades Remnants aren't stupid jerks like Esbern or Delphine.

I've been wondering the same thing. This whole "the Blades are legendary dragonslayers" business seems new to Skyrim, and I've been looking for references to it in older lore, but so far I've found nothing. I think it's what makes their ultimatum so particularly jarring and out of character. The only oath I've ever been aware of is their oath to the Dragonborn. It seemed to be their whole reason for existing.

The concept of dragons physically existing in Tamriel was invented in Skyrim. Prior to that, only mythical dragons existed (Akatosh, Alduin) as the "dragons" were confined to Akavir and was promptly slain, all of them

there are many holes in Skyrim, but this whole "oath" thing simply does not make any sense at all. For those of you who gave them your followers, have they ever said the oath, just like what Galmar told you to?

Delphine gave the oath to the first but with the next two she was all "We have work to do. Get your armor on and we'll do the oath later." Made me kick myself for not taking screenshots with the first recruit.

The Blades oath is "I won't be a sensitive wuss and 'meditate' with dragons."

The Blades oath isn't worth the breath spent to actually speak it.

That aside, I think they're trying to tie in an age old enmity between the two, since they both have roots in the Akavir. Both Dragons and Blades are Akavir or have Akavir roots. I suppose in the Blades case, the dragonhunter mentality of Akavir morphed into a sort of general idealogy. Greybeards don't see them as much removed from their roots though. Arngeir calls them "Akaviri barbarians". The strange thing is, this is somehow supposed to be a bad thing in his mind. I think he's two steps away from being like a dragon priest, putting them on a pedestal. These so called Akaviri barbarians protected people from dragons. He could say that dragons are also "barbaric" and "Akaviri", but he'd rather be led by them.

The Greybeards are led only by one dragon, no more. And this particular dragon is the only reason humans actually manage to prosper. By extension, this dragon is the very reason a Blades member can ask for his death today

Anyway, anyone remember what the Oath is?

According to the Greybeard story, he's the reason humans prospered. I've learned to not trust any one source in this game. Bethesda is always lying about something.

I brought it up somewhere else, but no one answered - but I'm confused on where dragon priests and thu'um using draugrs came from. According to the tablets on high hrothgar, Paarth bestowed the Nords the "thu'um", and heroically turned against his own kind.. except there's a whole other faction of [undead] humans who guard word walls, know the voice, worshipped dragons, and instead of helping mankind, used their privileges to subjugate their fellow mortals. If Paarth was the first to gift the Voice, then where did these people learn it?

I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSteoCk39Nw

Oath is at 0:35.

Marcurio in Blade/Heavy armor. Cool.

Lol what a simple oath. And nothing about Dragons either. So, Delphine and Esbern are nothing but lying bastards who try to use the Dragonborn instead of serving him. How nice.

People see what they want to see, I guess. Delphine and Esbern are apparently just wretched, but I don't get it at all. It's like we're playing a different game. Really, I want to chalk it up to most of you being young or something, and Bethesda miscalculating including "old authoritarian people" as allies. Nothing is worse than an old person "acting forceful" about things. The fact that most of you call Paarthurnax "cute" and are happy he is voiced by "Mario" just furthers my theory.

The dragon priests revere the dragons. Methinks the dragons that they worship gave them ability to do so. I've never really heard about Paarthurnax being the first to tell people how to use the Voice. What I have heard is Paarthurnax is the first to tell people how to use the Voice for use against the dragons

I don't get what you're saying, and that's an actual curiosity

I mean some people see them as oppressive and overbearing, but I don't see the big deal with them. I can only think that the way they're presented might rub off younger players as uncool. I think Bethesda themselves intended them to be more likeable than that. For one, they wouldn't have gotten two well known actors to play them, or make Esbern himself a kind of centerpoint for the trailer even.. But despite that, some players treat them like throwaway characters.


Some of the tablets said that people "had no Voice" before him.



High Hrothgar Tablets, Emblem II



Men were born and spread over the face of Mundus
The Dragons presided over the crawling masses
Men were weak then, and had no Voice

High Hrothgar Tablets, Emblem III



The fledgling spirits of Men were strong in Old Times
Unafraid to war with Dragons and their Voices
But the Dragons only shouted them down and broke their hearts


High Hrothgar Tablets, Emblem IV



Kyne called on Paarthurnax, who pitied Man
Together they taught Men to use the Voice
Then the Dragon War raged, Dragon against Tongue

Well, it's just that they claimed that they're looking for a Dragonborn to protect, yet you have to do their bidding to have them fulfill their "promise" to serve you. It certainly does not click: "If you need me, shouldn't you be the one who do my bidding, and not the other way around?"


Yes, as I said, I haven't really heard of Paarthurnax being the first to teach people how to use the Voice, it's just that he's the first to teach people how to use the Voice for use against the dragons.

I can't claim to know where did the dragon priests learn Shout from, as there is no explanation about that. Perhaps they are "traitors" that worship the dragons once they learnt how to use one, perhaps the dragons that they worship taught them how to use it, or perhaps the dragons they worhip grant them the ability to use it Dragonborn-style. I don't know.

There are many holes in Skyrim's lore relative to the already established lore

Two answers to this:

First one was based on the book http://www.imperial-library.info/content/dragon-war. Basically, a bunch of people worship dragons (calling themselves dragon priests) and these dragons gave these guys the shout. They rule with an iron fist, piss off the whole population, and eventually, a dragon like Paarthurnax came in and tip the balance for the whole population. Its most likely that these priest supported and worship Alduin, given the the battle between one of the dragon priests before entering Valhalla.

The second answer can always be the fact that many people learned shout during or after the Dragon Wars. Most likely of these people were famous warriors that know the shout, die a long time ago, and then tombed. They become draugrs ya see as today.