okay so these two guilds state that they have hit on hard times DB:the statue in Bravil got destroyed during the Great War" and with the Theives Guild: "cursed or the fact that they svck at doing their jobs" but anyways does anyone notice that both groups had a "hit on hard times" background and if you were working for Bethesda what would you change to these two groups

Yeah, I agree. It would be more interesting if say, the DB flourished only in Skyrim and was dwindling in all of Tamriel. They plan to take back their territory but first they need to pull off a major operation.

Tag that stuff as spoilers please.

Seriously, just started the Thieves Guild questline on a new toon. Course now I'm intriged as to how. Hope a Mod will move this out of general.

I can't speak to the DB, I just started the quest line, doing my first assassinations. But the thieves guild was very well done, I thought and the armor you get at a certain point looks awesome. If they are similar in theory... "Help restore the organization" then I guess that's not a surprise. I did like that the DB is just a rag-tag bunch, sort of cut loose from the mythology and mystic that they still had in Oblivion. "Eh, yeah, we used to have these five tenets... but now, whatever..." shows the deterioration of the group. Whereas the thieves guild in the game, if you decide to help them, has a pretty solid foundation but with some rot that needs to be cleaned away.

Sorry man I'm not sure how to do that, help please?

Just deleted it for now.

Use [spoiler] and [/spoiler.] ---without the .

Thanks man, kinda like HTML.

This just in: everybody in Tamriel is experiencing hard times. The DB, the TG, the Companions, the jarls, Winterhold, the guards, the bards, the mages, the Forsworn, the Falmer, the Empire, the bandits, the beggars, the witches, the spriggons, the vampires, the werewolves, the Daedra, the caravans, the farmers, and the (fill in the blank). Only Ma'iq and the dragons are doing all right.

yes, but you were in the spoilers forum, so there was actually no need to tag it, though it is a courtesy if the spoiler is a major one and the game is relatively new.