I've been digging around in the wiki, looking at the older (Morrowind & Oblivion) versions of the "nightblade" class - essentially a sneaky assassin/mage. Largely based on this post - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1288290-the-soul-stealing-dance-of-the-sword-mage/page__gopid__19431080 - I've been thinking about creating something similar. What I've got so far:

Dunmer race. I know other races may be more optimal, but I haven't made a Dunmer character yet in Skyrim.

Some obvious skills to advance: Sneak, Destruction, One-handed, Illusion.

Perks: I'll probably go up the right side of Sneak, but maybe I'll ignore the left side. Seems like I can do without Muffled Movement and the rest.

I plan to take Illusion up to Silent Spell for obvious reasons, but I don't want to let Illusion do all the heavy lifting here. Maybe will grab Aspect of Terror for the boost to flame damage.

I plan to use Destruction mostly as a defensive school, focusing on runes, cloaks, and wall spells. It will also be the primary ranged attack, I think. Archery is tempting, but might be spreading me too thin.

For One-handed, I'll use dagger for sneak attacks, but dual swords or sword & spell in open combat. I want this to be viable, so I'll perk it up a bit. Might get the critical damage perks for the little extra boost, but it might not be enough.

Now for the questions:

Would you work on any other skills for this type of character, or swap anything out? I can easily see this character dabbling in Alchemy, Alteration, Enchanting, and Light Armor, but that seems like a ton of skills - especially for a player who rarely sees his characters get out of the 20s in level. But I'm open to suggestions for different builds.

And quests: What questlines would make most sense? I picture this guy as a refugee from Morrowind, perhaps a former Morag Tong member. Probably a slightly older mer, a veteran of the Tong who might be looking to have a quiet life in Skyrim, only to get dragged into action once again. I figure I'll take him straight to Windhelm and shack up in the Grey Quarter, maybe doing quests out of there (if any).

WIth that kind of background, though, joining the Dark Brotherhood seems like a stretch from an RP perspective.... What do you think?

The Thieves Guild is very tempting for the sweet armor sets (the DB set seems too over the top), but I don't know if it really fits my image of a stealthy mage-bladesman.

Daedric quests are a clear choice - especially Azura and Mephala.

Other than that, I don't know what his main "thing" will be. The College of Winterhold is too silly; the main quest doesn't seem to fit (though I'll likely unlock dragons anyway). I guess I'm looking for some reason to go into dungeons & adventure... What's a good motivation for a character like this? Hatred of necromancers?

Suggestions on the build & quests are most welcome!

If you do join the DB, you get the shrouded gloves, which are a godsend to stealth characters. If you don't though, alchemy or enchanting, or even speech to buy potions & poisons, are a must, and will give your daggers a little more punch in combat - especially at lower levels. It may also be worth putting a few points into restoration to help during tougher fights (you could also put your points into stamina when levelling, so you can sprint away easily before sneaking back.

My advice is stick to what a Nightblade would actually use and not just any skill that may be beneficial. The idea to have a certain build is to also have limitations. Destruction, light armor, one handed, sneak are primary skills used by nPc nightblades in the game. Obviously, you can use whatever you want, but these templates sort of set a trend of restrictions so you dont become overpowered.

Yeah, the DB does have some great rewards and (I'm assuming) some great missions for a character like this. I just don't know *exactly* how to justify it in RP. The Tong and the DB have a rather unfriendly relationship, I understand.

Forgot about Restoration! That's another skill to think about. I like the whole spellswordy aspect of healing in combat in real-time, rather than tabbing out to chug a potion. On the other hand, Alchemy fits the Dunmer skillset a little more, and would really help a nightblade.

Edit: matteo78, I very much agree that restrictions are good. I'd prefer to have a core of 4, no more than 5, skills I really focus on. Maybe your 4 will work.... the only one I think I'd really miss is Illusion, with its Silent Spell perk. I suppose I could always just get that up to 50 for the perk and ignore most of the Illusion spells...

How about the Thieves Guild from an RP perspective? Probably this guy would go right up to Nightingale quickly... a devotee of Nocturnal? The only problem there is the discontinuity between what is essentially a guild of Black-briar thugs and the slick awesomeness of the Nightingale idea. I don't know how to reconcile those in my mind, really.

Sounds solid except the destruction magic stuff. The reason being is that as the OP said, he'll be spreading himself a little thin. I've also found bows to be the single most indispensible tool of the assassin. The blade perks are awesome but you do have to get up close. And that doesn't work when you have to take out someone in the middle of a town. I'm specifically thinking of the Fishwife Quest, which is one of the radiant quests you get from the DB. You can only get her when she's on the docks in Riften and there's always someone else in line-of-site unless you gun her down with a bow. And my idea of a successful assassin isn't one that goes on a bloody rampage with a battleaxe on a nice Sunday afternoon at the market... or in this case going on a rampage with an incinerate spell, burning down the entire town in the process.

My best assassin was a High Elf. I took every perk from the archery, sneak, one handed and light armor trees---well, all the ones worth taking. By the time I retired him he could slit the throat of the most fearsome Deathlord or take the same quality of enemy down with two shots. No one could ever get near him. So much so that using a sword or other one handed weapon was a rare thing.

I'd go with pumping up a little conjuration before destruction, purely for defensive purposes. Once you're discovered, you're discovered. Might as well have a little extra helpo.

Well, my goal with Destruction is to use it to complement melee once my cover is blown (cloaks), to lay traps (runes), to shut off avenues of pursuit (wall spells)... and, yes, the occasional dual-cast blast as I move in to close with sword(s) or knives. Plus Destruction is a time-honored Dunmer practice.

I agree Archery is probably the "better" choice - good to know about that particular quest, btw - but most of my characters work up Archery to some extent, so I want to try something different, mostly for flavor.

Without archery stealth players work very differently. I have two, both Dunmer, and tbh the non archer is more enjoyable.

So, if you don't want to join the Dark Brotherhood, just get to the recruitment quest and kill Astrid instead. You'll get a quest to 'Destroy the Dark Brotherhood', which should net you a set of DB armour, some cash and other sundry loot.

As for build, drop Destruction, it's really a total waste for an assassin, Sneak, One Handed, Light Armour and Illusion will do all the execution you require. Add Enchanting/Smithing/Alchemy to taste.

I'm doing something a little similar, also a Dunmer Nightblade. I'm avoiding dagger backstabs though, as I have found them to be too powerful.
I'm taking Illusion for the Muffle and Invisiblity (again like you, don't want Illusion doing all the work) so that combined with sneak I can get up close and do a backstab, though I'm going to be using a sword for x6 damage only.

Destruction i'm going all out, not just defensive.

So backstab, then a mix of melee and destruction to finish off. Gonna play on Expert of probably Master actually, so I hope I'm durable enough for some post backstab melee. Going Light Armor so hopefully should be ok.

If I encounter a large group, I may throw some big fireballs at em and then duck into the shadows, then come back for backstabs.

Sneak, Illusion, One Handed, Destruction, Light Armor, Enchanting
Something like this: http://www.skyrimcalculator.com/#82123

EDIT: Forgot, gonna probably go vampire as well, at least for part of the playthrough.
And since Skyrim vampires don't get attribute increases (since they killed attributes!) I'm using this mod for a boost to speed & melee:

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=5863

I'd considered the "Destroy the DB" angle, actually. My only concern there is that it seems like a fairly short-lived questline - go in and kill 'em all, yes? That wouldn't really keep my character busy.

Destruction isn't optimal for the build, I agree, but I'm keeping it anyway, just to see how it will all work and, as I said, for flavor/RP.

Interesting build, evilhyde - thanks for posting! Sounds like just the playstyle I'm looking for here.

I noticed you didn't grab Assassin's Blade - do you think sneak attacks will still be viable even without that? I want to walk a fine line here. I'm playing on Adept, and I don't want to make *every* encounter a guaranteed one-shot sneak attack kill, but I *do* want it to work a good portion of the time.

Well this is my second attempt at a backstabber. Before I was also playing Adept, and the ONLY skills I had raised was Illusion to 75 for invisibility (perked up to silent casting so they didn't hear me cast invisibility & muffle) and Sneak with all the perks up to Silent Roll, including Assassin's Blade. (Plus some pickpocket for the hell of it.)

I was like level 27 and was one-shot killing everything, and never got attacked because even if I was spotted they usually lost me again after I re-cast invisibility. So even on the few I didn't one-shot, I could two-shot after they lost me again. Using a normal elven dagger and my one handed skill was still very low, and I did NOT have the Dark Brotherhood hood either. It got boring fast, that's why I'm trying this new build without Assassin's Blade and some more skills to mix in like Destruction.

I was reading the 40 hp Master Vampire build (post around here) and he suggested that non-dagger backstabs are more likely to alert surrounding enemies? I dunno if that's true, but we will see if it makes things a little more interesting.

Hmm, then I wonder if I should avoid invisiblity/muffle spells...

The last character I took Assassin's Blade with was a rogue who used no magic. So when I was caught, I was caught. (I didn't have Shadow Warrior.)

I also didn't have the DB gloves with that character. Had a pretty low 1-handed skill. Not every backstab was an instakill (again, on Adept). I didn't get to a very high level - probably quit around lvl 20, when the Thieves' Guild questline finished.

Anyway, Assassin's Blade for that character seemed like a good problem-solver for those enemies I couldn't sneak around. But you may have a point. I guess I need to decide whether this nightblade will be primarily someone who avoids trouble in order to complete a goal, or who has a grudge and wants to kill the enemies in his way.

Both the DB and Thieves Guild seem like they *could* fit... But I don't want to do both with the same character.

See, I haven't done the DB yet, so I'm sort of interested to give it a shot. But I don't want to get svcked into the questline and then find that I'm involved in a guild that really doesn't fit the character. The Oblivion DB were just a bunch of bloodthirsty maniacs - no professionalism, no real goals. Is the Skyrim DB any different?

Actually, after trying it out a bit on Expert, I've changed my game plan. I think I had spread myself too thin with skills, and nothing seemed very powerful. 6x backstabs weren't killing, One Handed & Light Armor was too weak to go toe to toe, and Destruction was too low to do much damage.

This time I'll be focusing on three skills early on: Destruction, Sneak, Illusion
I WILL be using Assassin's Blade. But I won't level up One Handed at all, other that what little I get from backstabs.
I am using Destruction as my primary attack.

My first priority is to get Illusion to 50 and get Silent Casting perk, as well as get Sneak to a decent level and getting Backstab and then Assassin's Blade as soon as I can. And eventually Invisibility from Illusion of course.
Sneak around and pick off enemies with Destruction spells & dagger backstabs. I'll primarily use destruction unless I get a good opportunity. Or, as you mentioned, on those tougher enemies, start off with a nice big backstab to soften them up, then finish with spells.

Secondary skills after I'm comfortable with the level of the primary ones will be:
Light Armor, Enchanting, Pickpocket maybe?

I would like to eventually get Glass Armor, but don't want to go overboard with Smithing & Enchanting. May even dabble in some other magic, like Alteration for utility. Not entirely sure, gonna play it by ear as I go.

If Expert gets too easy, I'll switch to Master. If that's too easy I'll stop using daggers I guess.