So you know when you talk to Balgruuf about trapping the dragon? He's all wishy washy about taking sides and will only do so if there's a truce? Okay I'm glad I did a save. What a crock! Truce. I thought this thing was just to do a cease fire to just capture the dragon until that portion was done. No. You meet up at the Greybeards. Then I saw what this was. I thought I could piss off Tullius enough so he'd walk. I threw Elewyn out. Riften? I live there. I don't want to live in no Thalmor butt licking territory! I'm married and want to raise a family after all this! No. I couldn't. I almost had him, then Esbern started in. I just wanted to say "Ulfric, may I have a word with you in private....... This is not what you really want. Let's leave." But no dialog choice is there. None. It's a railroad. Okay, I got mad. I felt like taking off my shoe and slamming it on the table in that meeting -- okay I just showed my age: Khrushchev did that at the UN in 1960 during an argument with a Franco regime lackey. I think a dragonscale gauntlet would have had more impact.

Reload.

This time I give Balgruuf the axe, and now I found how much of a corrupt politician he really is. The arguing back and forth. "The Empire is Skyrim and the Empire means trade." Fine. Then side with the Empire. "But that means accepting help from the Legion." "Those chests of gold didn't hurt either." Want to pretend to play neutral, and not even considering telling me to tell Ulfric that you accept his gift? Milk-drinking boot-licker. No. Now you have to into "fine. He want's to do this the old way? I cannot beat him in single combat. Fine, tell the Legion to send aid."

So we finish this Civil War first. Balgruuf shouting at me as he leaves "You! You! A Stormcloak! This isn't over! Mark my words. This isn't over!" What are you going to do? I shouted you to the ground, and the shout killed your men. It was just Disarm. Go lick some Thalmor boots. Oh, and before you leave, I've got a house in Solitude for sale. I'll let it go for about 60,000 with all the amenities, you have those chests of gold after all. The new jarl is a great improvement.

And I won't have to listen to "Another wanderer here to lick my father's boots. Good job." anymore.

you seem to be ... disgruntled ;D

this really got you mad huh?

Yes, Balgruuf is a worthless toad. No principles, no spine, just a craven, milk-drinking weather-vane. My advice: Join Ulfric and send the Thalmor packing, along with every scheming Empire collaborator who'd rather persecute Nords than fight Thalmor.

I live in the RPG of life

Just a tad. What got me was this plot railroad to the truce under the guise of a cease fire with this territory swapping and no option of saying "Enough! This is not why we're here!" Just to go along with it. But that's done.

We'll run the Empire out of Skyrim in a sea of blood! Lydia knew enough to lock the door on Breezehome. Then Balgruuf threatens me? After he's defeated?

I know Markarth is going to be the toughest battle, but I already stole the key to the castle a long time ago.

And yes I do live in the real world.

You have my sympathy. I played the truce over three times until I got the result I liked. My issue was with Maven not getting anything, nada, zilch. And my character would rather be set on fire than sit at the same table with a Thalmor.

Sheesh, what a lot of hot air over the most tedious sequence in any game I have ever played. I did this "quest" for the first time just a few hours ago and found it so boring that on the few occasions I was able to speak I adopted a "Yeah, whatever", approach when what I really wanted to do was some serious face-slapping. The upshot was, I think, Ulrfic got Markath, the Empire got Dawnstar, the [censored] (aka Maven) got nothing and I was finally allowed to get on with my game and witness for myself a really weak and pathetic ending to a weak and pathetic main quest .

Good to see a fellow Stormcloak. ALL HAIL TO ULFRIC, YOU ARE THE HIGH KING!!!


P.S. Wonder how long before the Legion lovers descend upon this thread

Yeah, this was annoying. The first time I did the CW quests I studiously avoided spoilers and chose the Stormcloaks, and when I got to the exchange with Balgruuf I knew which way it was going to go as soon as he turned and started talking with Proventus Avenicci. The second time I did the truce first, and regretted it as I was basically wasting my time since all I could do was weakly moderate when what I wanted to do was grab both Tullius and Ulfric by their necks, smash their heads together a couple of times, then tell them to stop being idiots and reach a settlement. Unfortunately, there's no option to do so, which makes it inevitable that you're going to have to do it the hard way by cracking a lot more heads after dealing with the Dragon menace.

The dialogue from Balgruuf after you take Dragonsreach felt like a cheap shot, especially considering the fact he had the opportunity to avoid the battle in the first place; the fact it's totally uncalled-for, given it was his choice to let the battle happen in the first place rather than side with Ulfric, just made it ridiculous.

And thus the empire is being driven out of Skyrim FIRST. Then we trap the dragon.

I absolutely LOVED how my first truce played out.

- Elenwen tossed out (my main HATES the Thalmor way more than the Empire or Stormcloaks)
- Stormcloaks get Markarth, but...
- Empire gets compensation for Karthwasten, AND Dawnstar, AND Winterhold.

And when all is said and done, my main orchestrated the Forsworn attack out of Cidhna Mine, effectively crippling the Silver-Bloods, the new Jarl, and leaving Markarth nigh defenseless.

"This isn't about gold, dammit!"

Seems you missed that line.

But yeah, I think the peace council is pretty pointless. I normally just do the quest for Paarthurnax and do the civil war far enough to convince the Jarl to help trap the dragon.

If that was addressed to me:

I actually did get that part, but it was pretty clear, based on previous commentary between Balgruuf and Proventus, which way he was going to lean when push came to shove. If you stand around for a while near any of the major players in the CW you can learn quite a bit about what's going on and why they picked the side they did, and I'm convinced that it's people not doing that that is fueling a number of the disagreements and errant perceptions that pop up in topics like this.

It's really strange, but I never got this on my first character (Aillas). I trapped the dragon, didn't have to consult any blasted committees. You know what a camel is? A horse designed by committee, that's what. I haven't progressed the MQ far enough on my last two characters to see this quest. Maybe I was already a Stormcloak on Aillas beforehand, I dunno. But the civil war went on anyway.

I thought the Silver-Bloods get to be Jarl if you give it over to the Stormcloaks.... I frankly hated all the options. And hate Markarth.... I like Elisif - too bad she can't be married on xbox. Don't care of rMaven Black-briar either....

Yeah the negotiations pissed me off too. I wished you got a checklist of what YOU wanted to do!