We do not know the facts about the White-Gold Concordat apart from the ban on Telos worship and territorial changes.

So I looked at our history (RL history) many examples that when put together are very similar to the Dominion - Empire war.

The reason for this thread is to attempt to uncover more of the White-Gold Concordat from facts, logic and speculation.

I want to make it clear that this is not an Empire or Stormclokes thread but a thread that works towards understanding the White-Gold Concordat itself, I would be glad for more opinions on the matter and in fact I might even go as far as to role play it in a later date.

I am personally just interested in understanding the events of the Dominion Empire war and will build up with whoever is interested a clearer picture of the White-Gold Concordat.

By greatest assets are

• Full Title: A Concise Account of the Great War Between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion Author: Legate Justianus Quintius
  
• Real life history
  
• Information from various other sources especially ES wiki

From what we know the Empire had suffered greatly over the years losing Summerset, Valenwood and Elswyer to the dominion. Summerset to the effects of the Oblivion crisis, my speculation is that the high elves lost faith in the empire due to their failure to defend them (in Summerset) and the apparent actions of the Thalmor who seem to have made a major contribution to the defense of Summerset, it is my speculation that the Thalmor are ether a political faction that has survived in Summerset in one form or another since the days of Tiber Septim (remember that elves are long lived in oblivion there are elves who are mentioned and said to have been alive during the time of Tiber Septim) or they are a political faction that used the image of the Thalmor and turned it to their own.
It is important to mention at this point that Tiber Septim used a special weapon against all who opposed him called by Humans the "brass of gold" made by the Dwemer. The brass of gold is to the world of the elder scrolls what nuclear weapons are to our world according to sources in fact a mage who believed Tiber Septim to be mad with power sabotaged the "brass of gold" in order to end its use. The high elves and especially the Thalmor faction who saw the result of Tiber Septims actions, the end to they had achieved hated Tiber Septim and later Talos for these actions, this is the reason why it is suspected that the Thalmor faction may ether be the same faction or a continuation of the old Thalmor faction and not a new enterprise, the continued hate to Talos.
Valenwood was influenced by the Thalmor gradually until in a very short and decisive war the Thalmor and their allies in Valenwood staged a coup that completely cut Valenwood out of the empire.
For the next 40 years the Thalmor where busy in their new lands the probable conclusion is that the Thalmor where eliminating opposition and expanding the prosperity of their lands, also the Thalmor build a powerful army that is at least a match to the imperial legion if not more capable. Elswyer was made to join the dominion as a protectorate due the disappearance of two moons that in local belief meant a great deal, it is unknown if the Thalmor returned the moons to their place or simply knew when they shall return but regardless the Thalmor used this to make the people of Elswyer indeted to them, a coup against imperial rule followed shortly.

Morrowind devastated by disaster leaving it a land of irrelevance to the current time period and denying the empire another province weakening it further.

Black marsh seems to have become ether a nation or a collection of small kingdoms that since the Oblivion crisis do not answer to imperial rule.
It is evident that Black marsh has sufficient amount of organization to invade the ruins of Morrowind and to send its population to all corners of Tamriel.
It is my speculation that since there is no mention of relations between Black marsh and the dominion or the Empire with Black marsh that Black marsh is indeed a great power or at least is powerful enough to case the two super powers of the day to restrain themselves of taking any action against black marsh.

Hammerfell already suffering from internal strife is a very problematic province for the empire, apparently the internal strife is so bad that the prosperity of the entire province is affected.
Skyrim Cyrodiil and Highrock are considered to be prosperous provinces in the Empire.

From these details once very important piece of information can be uncovered, none of the major legion recruiting provinces are effected apart from Hammerfell, whatever cased the degrading quality of the legion was due to more then lack of manpower and probably lacked training, funds, equipment and officers. It is evident that the new imperial line seized power by use of the legion, by looking at Roman imperial history and more modern history's it is safe to assume that a significant amount of generals and officers who posed a threat to the new imperial line would be eliminated.

One truth stands out and that is that while the Empire grows weak and grows plagued by internal strife the dominion grows strong and more secure in its rule.

On the eve of war it is known that the Thalmor already positioned their armies along the border, they are ready for the war and are fully mobilized while the defending imperial armies are only the standing army, most of the reserves are not mobilized, and the empire is in a peace time state of demobilization.

It is my guess that due to the lack of income as a result of losing so many provinces the standing imperial guard and legion are much smaller due to the cost of a standing army, imagine the imperial guard in oblivion and cut it down.

We know that the Thalmor demanded the ban of Telos worship and large parts of Hammerfell, I do not believe these where the only terms and by using other treaties as an example I think we can include other terms such as a cut in imperial legions, military supervision by the Thalmor, demilitarizing of imperial Hammerfell, the abandonment of forts, reparations for damage cased by blade attacks, trials for blades war criminals, etc.

The demands of the Thalmor we know about are so outrageous that it is clear that even if the emperor agreed to the terms the Thalmor would invade anyway, the amount of pre planning of the invasion makes it clear that the question of war was never a question.

The Emperor has no choice but to fight the Thalmor.

At the first stage of the battle the Thalmor overrun western Cyrodiil on their way to hammerfell, it is probable that landings where made by sea in Hammerfell in coordination with a land assault, it is mentioned that some minor sea battles had occurred but there is no indication to whom had superiority, with the near total superiority of the Thalmor in nearly every other field I am ready to assume that The Thalmor as their heart lands are an island nation would have a significant navy to protect their interests.

Due to their spectacular successes the Thalmor proceed to end their advance in Hammerfell after occupying the parts of Hammerfell they claimed for the dominion and focus of destroying the empire.

The Thalmor occupy the majority of cyrodiil and then proceed to capture and sack the imperial city by sending most of their armies to a combined attack from land and sea.

The Emperor fights his way out of the doomed capital but an entire legion is destroyed while acting as rear guard.

The Thalmor believing the war is almost over suspend major operations, the emperor it is said pretends to give indications that he is ready to surrender (or he may have been ready to surrender until the arrival of new legions) the new armies from Skyrim and Hammerfell replenish the imperial armies. There is no mention that I can see of armies from Highrock, I can only assume that the Highrock armies where fighting in combination with the Hammerfell armies or the Skyrim armies or that their forces where never fully mobilized due to the distance from the actual battle field.

The Hammerfell legions it seems chose to leave a significant amount of veteran soldiers Hammerfell, the commander of the dominion forces believes that the forces facing her army are the hammerfell legions and doesn’t know that the majority of them have left for Cyrodiil, if this is a ingenious ruse played by the Empire or a catastrophic failure in Thalmor intelligence is unknown but probably is a combination of both.

It's important to note that this is a very limited account of the war for more details read A Concise Account of the Great War Between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion Author: Legate Justianus Quintius


The Emperor it is claimed engineered an ingenious plan of attack, while I am a loyal imperial citizen I must doubt how much the emperor was responsible for.

The plan to retake the imperial city seems very much like the Thalmor initial invasion plan, both plans separated the attacking forces into about three groups and each used hidden camps in the woods to hide their armies.

The ruse that let the imperial legions' leave Hammerfell unnoticed seems to be the initiative of the local commander rather then any decree by the emperor.

It is clear that without the emperor victory would have been impossible and that if he had not left the imperial city in such a desperate maneuver the empire would not have survived as a unified force and that the emperor is responsible for the retaking of the imperial city but it is my opinion that to much credit is given to him.

After the destruction of the Thalmor armies in cyrodiil in the battle of the red ring imperial forces where decimated (except the veterans of the Hammerfell's armies) the emperor negotiated a peace with the Thalmor giving in to apparently most of the initial demands made by the Thalmor before the war.

Many criticize the actions of the emperor at the White-Gold Concordat especially the Redguards who would fight the Thalmor to a standstill until the Thalmor would agree to a white peace (both sides retreat to their original borders) claim that had the emperor continued to fight the Thalmor would have been utterly defeated and this claim can very possibly be true but with the situation uncertain as it was it was probably the correct decision for the emperor to make with the information he possessed at the time.

It seems that both Empire and Dominion lost their will to fight for the time being, both where shocked by the outcome of the war and both had lost confidence in their ability, both had terrible losses and both has no interest to keep fighting the war with forces so equally set after the battle of the red ring.

The initial results of the war were the increase in internal struggles in the empire and the loss of Hammerfell a major recruitment province for the legion and bad blow for the empire.

The rebellion is Skyrim seems to be a minor matter in current imperial interests until Ulfric kills the high king; it seems that imperial retaliation and Thalmor meddling after the battle of Malakath led to the increase in support for the stormcloke rebelion.

It seems according to some sources that Ulfric was actually released by the Thalmor from prison in the hope that he would case problems for the empire in Skyrim also there is some indication that at one time Ulfric was in contact with the Thalmor and that the Thalmor may be feeding information to both sides as it suits their interests.

The situation seems to be very grim for the Empire, it is doubtful if the Empire in its current form will survive the next Great war, ether the Empire reforms itself or a new empire shall replace it.

Who would be paying the Contract on Emperor Mede (DB Questline)?

The Thalmor, to gain further destabilisation?

The same person who performs the ritual: Amaund Motierre, who is a member of the Elder Council. He only wants the Emperor out of the way so he can claim some more personal power.

that is very possible, must say i figured he would be some high and mighy snob when in fact he was so copretive

in fact Francois Motierre the possible ancestor of the chap who orders you leaves cyrodiil out of fear for his life so who knows where his family grew up... mabey summerset? !

Yes, empire of the elves. So brace yourselves human slaves!

well Amaund Motierre claims its for the good of the empire because the emperor shall distroy the empire the qwestion is how he ment it in the sence that the empire should become a protectorate of the dominion or that the peace treaty should have been avoided?

i know its for his own benifit some how but its possible the dominion has a part in it

No stuff, Sherlock.... that's the disconnect in some of these threads.

not so sure if the assasination realy has anything to do with the dominion but one thing i think is intresting is that both empire and rebels keep getting some very good intel as if some one knows exactly what they are doing...

Uncovering facts from speculation. Hmm.

Then, in that case, why are you bothering with all this rhetoric? Obviously, you're bent on genocide....

My elves btw, are not. My elves see the Thalmor and their controllers for exactly what they are - agents of an eventual stagnation.

actualy my elf is against the thalmor and pro empire because it makes some very intresting role play, i simply like the thalmor because of their well orgenized notes on Ulfric

it is impossible to uncover facts that do not exsist we only know about the WGC what we need to know for the plot, in order to get a better picture of whats actualy going on the only sorces are historical sorces

Sir Goon.... whatever would make you think those "notes" on Ulfric are really "true"? Wherever did you get the idea that a group will only leave "truth" laying around? Disinformation.... NEVER believe anything you read in books, notes, whatever in ANY TES game. Jeez.

You should post this in the Lore section. They'd have very interesting takes on what you've said here. : )

where is the lore section?

well about ulfric its just a very intresting prespective that the Thalmor may have relesed him from prison to case rebelion in Skyrim just like germany let Lenin go

it is simply intresting to have many views and thats a good feture in Skyrim, and is why making discussions about these matters is fun.

in oblivion their was just about one view dagon bad martin good.

Oh really. What forums were YOU reading? Jeez.

Because things that happened in our history apply to a place like Nirn, where magic and gods exist.

QFT....

I'm also interested in knowing more about the WGC, as it seems the Aldmeri must have covered up a lot of information on what it exactly entailed, hell, they covered up a lot about the Great War itself. That being said, this isn't the way to gain credible information.

This makes as much sense as comparing TES history to Battlestar Galatica history. It just doesn't translate.

can't make you two happy can i? i am struggeling with my english as it is...

can you please tell me your opinion and stop jumping in here and flipping me off?

i am simply trying to fill in holes that the game does not fill in. and all you do is flipp me off without giving me your opinions and thats what i actualy want.

my problem with oblivion is that their is no variation in any of the main quests, your view is limited to what Beth throws at you, for example what do we realy know about hte mythic dawn? they are painted as total bad guys while martin septim and the blades are painted as good guys, in skyrim the only clear cut bad guys are the thalmor, dragons with aludin and the other monsters. in skyrim there is so much going on and so many ways of seeing the setuation depending on your role play

Well, it makes as much sense overall I suppose - since writers generally draw on things they know, no matter what genre they write for.



I don't WANT the holes filled in, personally. And most of your premises so far are just - outré.... I suggest you read a lot more, think about stuff, and go from there. And there's nothing wrong with your english - you're doing better than a number of people I know who have supposedly been speaking the language from birth.

at last an opinion THANK YOU!

i am not copering with history i am using it to gain prespective for example (an example i have used often) ulfric is relesed by the thalmor in the hope he will case problems in skyrim just like the germans let lenin go to make problems for the russians this way i gained a new way of looking at the intire setuation.
tell the truth i expected to use actual comparisons like the versiles treaty and the finish winter war but as you yourself said you can't do that.

well i used word for the actual post but it takes me a good deal of time to process every comment like that...

Uh.... you want opinions? Nope. Not going there. I gave up opinions about this sort of thing (the amorphous stuff you're posting...) YEARS ago. What difference does it make? What difference will it make to the way you play the game?

And I suggest you consider that various times the mods have stated (when having removed posts) that comparisons to real world history are NOT encouraged.

truth be told i hardly used real workd history for what i said at all, only for the conclusion that in my opinion if the thlamor where making such outragous demands allready there must have been other demands and that matter is realy not that important.