Atronach stone + perk = 80% passive spell absorb. 3 ranks in magic resist + mara + one enchant, and you're hitting the magic resistance cap of 85%. With alteration perked, you are virtually immune to magic, and are even able to use the kung-fu of spell absorb to turn your opponents' power against them. Seems like a damn good investment to me, but to each his own, yes?
-Loth

Loth,

The only point I was ever trying to make was; I cannot think of a mage build where it is not "better" to wear armor. There is no penalty and it significantly reduces damage, but more importantly there is no significant game play benefit to putting on just robes. That seems intrinsically flawed, a mage better off in armor. I was hoping that this wasn't the case, but it is. So far your main argument has been don't get hit and it doesn't matter, that is irrelevant, one build, with armor creates a stronger more survivable character. Every technique that you have describe can be done while wearing armor, but also with massive physical damage reduction. I really think this is a flaw in the design. Plus, at high levels almost every build will be completely overpowered. 2 dremora lords, invisibility leading to nonstop times 30 damage, at that point you can do whatever you want, you are unstoppable.

If you're on PC, you can DL the Magic Balance mod that adds manacost penalties to wearing armor and reduces stagger proc from the impact perk to only a 50% chance instead of 100%:

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2275

The modder also pulled off modest destruction spell scaling attached to the novice, apprentice, adept, etc. destruction perks and tweaked Alteration to be more effective/last a little longer. If you play this mod, you will be pleasantly surprised at how nice and unclunky magic in Skyrim has become. Also, I would advise that you get:

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3352

This mod fixes the spell absorb bug where having a high spell absorption will fail your summoning spells.

Yes, these mods change gameplay from what console users have to deal with, but IMO it's a better/more entertaining experience that will yield a mage that works better without armor. If you play unmodded or on a console, then all of your points are true... there is nothing stopping you from wearing armor and being a better wizard than one without armor. Like I said before -- it's just common sense. There is only the mobility issue in heavy armor, and in most cases, this is not a big issue... or even an issue at all. But maybe we can agree that you don't NEED heavy armor to survive as a pure mage?

-Loth

Doesn't sound like a good investment to me, yes it's powerful, but you can get the protection without significant perk investment since enchanting is a no-brainer anyway. Absorption also has an irritating bug, though I suppose it's not fair to fault it in this argument for that.

Absorption seems completely unnecessary on top of the magic resist cap. With ~80% magicka resist or more, absorption should be total overkill against most enemy mages and dragons, and useless against most other enemies. They'll also be dealing most of their damage to your summons, not you, if you're using conjuration. I just can't see why you'd opt to stack absorption in addition to resist. Lord Stone is better protection than atronach vs. enemies that you aren't already almost completely impervious to already.

For a pure mage, I prefer absorbtion over resistance as it give you the added benefit of turning rival mage's magicka against them. Now playing as a thief and/or warrior, resistance makes more sense to me, as there are better stones for those classes.

Remember that I'm not using zero-cost destruction gear, and you'll see why I love the spell absorption kung-fu. Also, regarding Magic Resist: I'm sure that you already know that even with as effective as conjuration is at de-aggro on enemies, you will still get nailed by enemy spells. Spell absorb is applied first, and when it doesn't work that 20% of the time, it's nice to not die. Enemies that don't cast are not a real threat, so I arrange my build to maximize defense against the guys that CAN mess me up.

-Loth

I don't see how enemies that do cast are a real threat when you've got 80%+ reduction of magic damage, or why you'd somehow need more magicka to kill them than you do vs. other enemies.

I also don't have an issue with mana, I've got about 500 right now with 150%ish regen I think, and haven't run out vs. anything in quite some time. Granted, I'm not using destruction at all(conjuration, illusion, restoration), but I still doubt it'd be anything other than overkill vs. magic enemies even for a destruction mage. My current character isn't even using that much magic resist.

I'm playing on expert and my relevant stats are -

~500 health
~500 magicka
120% magic regeneration
35% magicka resist
37% frost and shock resist
50% fire resist(dunmer)

I guess the way elemental resists work it's similar to having 80% magic resist, and I am spending 3 enchants on it altogether, but I'm currently using mage stone and could go Lord and drop some enchants. In fact I really should've done that by now since my magic skills are high enough, I just haven't really had an issue surviving yet so haven't bothered.


Maybe if you're on master the absorption is doing something for you but IDK I just can't see it being worth it.

I do play with Destruction and it helps alot. At least at lower levels.

I don't sneak with this character -- ever. I also am not using any potions or illusion. This means no silent spells, and as soon as I walk into a necromancer lair (for example) I'm often outnumbered and outgunned immediately. A fight against one caster inevitably brings his buddies, and then I am blowing through magicka like a madman. Destruction spells will eat it up fast, even when you're perked for it. Having spell absorb at this point is a really good idea.

Make sense now?
-Loth

PS I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I promise. But you have to admit that we are playing quite different characters right now.

Edit: With the mods I'm playing, the destruction spells cost more magicka (and do a little more damage) when you perk up the tree... not less. I think this might explain why it seems overkill -- because we aren't even playing the game with the same rules. My apologies for not mentioning this sooner... I'm kind of a dummy, sometimes. Oh well... happy adventuring!

Since you have the ability to mod the game, how about making one that maintains a 3% regeneration rate in combat if you are at a 0 armor. A regen mage would be viable build then, and you wouldn't be pushed towards enchanting all you items to lowering a one or two schools to zero cast cost. What does everyone think about that?

<sub>@Lothario - thanks for the endorsemant. You might want to note that I did increase the in-combat magicka regen with the mod as well, and reduced the overall cost of spells as you become more proficient with the associated school of magic.

The next version (which I'm working on now) will adjust alteration a little more. I'm giving the protection spells unique bonuses so that different spells will be useful in different situations, and all of them will scale up as you improve alteration much like the modded destruction spells do. Ideally, none of your alteration spells will ever become obsolete.</sub>

@Misty

If they had mods to the consoles, I would be using yours.

I totally understand! I have Skyrim for both the Xbox 360 and the PC. I got the PC version first, because I *knew* I would end up modding and using mods (having played previous TES games), but sometimes it's nice to just chill on the couch and play on my big screen tv, and I know that not everyone has a gaming pc. I wish I could pack the mod up as a free DLC for you.