Something on TVTropes... : V

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:31 pm

On TVTropes, the Purge has this to say about the Thalmor:

At least one survivor of a Valenwood purge agrees to help the Dragonborn break into the embassy because the Thalmor murdered his family... according to the Blades. Thalmor sources hint that it was the Blades that killed his family. Otherwise, there are no mention of these purges.

What is the source? I've never come across it, and it seems so unlike the Blades' to do something so underhanded to get a sympathetic contact. It's more the Thalmor's style.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:55 pm

Though I hate both groups greatly, I would sooner trust the Blades over the Thalmor, remember these two groups are are great enemies, so either one could be lying.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:55 pm

On TVTropes, the Purge has this to say about the Thalmor:

What is the source? I've never come across it, and it seems so unlike the Blades' to do something so underhanded to get a sympathetic contact. It's more the Thalmor's style.

I've never heard of this hint. The only source of information seen from Thalmor side is during that embassy mission, and all that's there is about Delphine (being troublesome and old), Esbern (being crazy and old) and Ulfric (being troublesome and useful at the same time)

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:23 pm

You have to put two and two together.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/thalmor-dossier-esbern

He was not a field agent, but is now believed to have been behind some of the most damaging operations carried out by the Blades during the pre-war years, including the Falinesti Incident...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:J%27datharr%27s_Note

he's now been identified as a survivor of a family of traitors who were all believed to have died in a fire in Falinesti.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:58 am

I wrote that in! I forgot to put the source, though. You have to put two and two together.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/thalmor-dossier-esbern

He was not a field agent, but is now believed to have been behind some of the most damaging operations carried out by the Blades during the pre-war years, including the Falinesti Incident...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:J%27datharr%27s_Note

he's now been identified as a survivor of a family of traitors who were all believed to have died in a fire in Falinesti.

I don't necessarily see that as implying the Blades were behind the purge. More likely the Thalmor did the purging, and the Blades (through Esbern) either found out about it or helped end it or something along those lines. Thus the Thalmor would refer to it as an 'incident' meaning the Blades fighting them over it or somesuch.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:44 am

I don't necessarily see that as implying the Blades were behind the purge. More likely the Thalmor did the purging, and the Blades (through Esbern) either found out about it or helped end it or something along those lines. Thus the Thalmor would refer to it as an 'incident' meaning the Blades fighting them over it or somesuch.

None the less, the note implies that they didn't do it.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:51 pm

None the less, the note implies that they didn't do it.

No offense, but I think you're reaching.

The "Incident" was probably the Blades interfering with the purge, thus saving Malborn's life. That's probably how he knows Delphine and why he agrees to help you out.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:21 pm

No offense, but I think you're reaching.

The "Incident" was probably the Blades interfering with the purge, thus saving Malborn's life. That's probably how he knows Delphine and why he agrees to help you out.

Most nations on Tamriel would kill traitors. Why would the Thalmor need to do it via fire and secrecy?

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:41 pm

Most nations on Tamriel would kill traitors. Why would the Thalmor need to do it via fire and secrecy?

Who said it was done in secrecy? Delphine comments that his parents died in "one of those purges you never hear about," but that's just saying the news of their actions doesn't get brought up in common conversation in Skyrim. I doubt their purges are hush-hush. They're probably horrific and intended to send a message not to cross the Thalmor. They probably do something terrifying to traitors to send a message to others. Like burning them alive.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:38 am

Who said it was done in secrecy? Delphine comments that his parents died in "one of those purges you never hear about," but that's just saying the news of their actions doesn't get brought up in common conversation in Skyrim. I doubt their purges are hush-hush. They're probably horrific and intended to send a message not to cross the Thalmor. They probably do something terrifying to traitors to send a message to others. Like burning them alive.

Did you read the second link? A Thalmor source says a fire is what killed Malborn's family, who they admit were traitors in the same source, which implies (to the Khajiit assassin) that the Thalmor would have went after them had they not been killed in a fire.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:07 am

Did you read the second link? A Thalmor source says a fire is what killed Malborn's family, who they admit were traitors in the same source, which implies (to the Khajiit assassin) that the Thalmor would have went after them had they not been killed in a fire.

Do you disclose all of your actions to a hired hand, or do you tell them what they need to get the job done?

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:45 pm

Do you disclose all of your actions to a hired hand, or do you tell them what they need to get the job done?

Then why not just tell them to kill the target? Why bother mentioning his heritage or coming up with a lie?

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:08 am

Then why not just tell them to kill the target? Why bother mentioning his heritage or coming up with a lie?

You usually give background info on a target so your agent knows what to expect, and they probably didn't lie. I'm willing to bet his parents did die in that fire. They just fail to disclose certain key pieces of information regarding it.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:00 am

You usually give background info on a target so your agent knows what to expect, and they probably didn't lie. I'm willing to bet his parents did die in that fire. They just fail to disclose certain key pieces of information regarding it.

I see your point.

I concede.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:17 pm

I see your point.

I concede.

Don't be glum, chum. I'm not a big fan of the Blades, and I think that would have been an awesome plot twist. I just don't think the evidence is quite there to say they did it, especially when there's a much more likely candidate standing right next to them.

I extend to you the Amicable Handshake of Friendship!

*Holds out hand*

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:58 am

The blades are a covert government agency.

Not too long ago in our history, the French secret service sabotaged and effectively scrapped the Greenpeace vessel Rainbow Warrior, to prevent it from interfering in a nuclear test. It was blamed on 'terrorists'.

Secret services can, and do do these kinds of subvertive things where they play one side against the other in order to profit themselves.
Old as the way to Rome.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:23 am

You have to put two and two together.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/thalmor-dossier-esbern

He was not a field agent, but is now believed to have been behind some of the most damaging operations carried out by the Blades during the pre-war years, including the Falinesti Incident...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:J%27datharr%27s_Note

he's now been identified as a survivor of a family of traitors who were all believed to have died in a fire in Falinesti.

Without knowing what the Falinesti Incident actually was, we have no good reason to connect two singular references that may be separate.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:25 am

Without knowing what the Falinesti Incident actually was, we have no good reason to connect two singular references that may be separate.

Except that both references turning up in the same questline strongly indicates a connection.
Its narrative imperative, I suppose.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:02 am

Don't be glum, chum. I'm not a big fan of the Blades, and I think that would have been an awesome plot twist. I just don't think the evidence is quite there to say they did it, especially when there's a much more likely candidate standing right next to them.

I extend to you the Amicable Handshake of Friendship!

*Holds out hand*

*shakes hand*

I still can't shake the feeling that Bethesda intentionally had the Blades and/or Malborn involved in something happening in Falinesti.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:42 pm

On TVTropes, the Purge has this to say about the Thalmor:

What is the source? I've never come across it, and it seems so unlike the Blades' to do something so underhanded to get a sympathetic contact. It's more the Thalmor's style.

After abandoning their oath to serve the Dragonborne, and everything they've stood for over the years, I don't put anything past them. I only wish it were possible to slaughter the last remaining Blades and start anew...Don't need any bad apples spoiling the new bunch now do we?

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:44 am

I don't necessarily see that as implying the Blades were behind the purge. More likely the Thalmor did the purging, and the Blades (through Esbern) either found out about it or helped end it or something along those lines. Thus the Thalmor would refer to it as an 'incident' meaning the Blades fighting them over it or somesuch.

Yeah, that's about as implicative as "Looking for my husband Nazeem? You should check the Jarl's backside" meaning that Nazeem and the Jarl having a homosixual affair (which I got swatted down :rolleyes:

).