Question for all the people that hold immersion and actually RPing out their character that want to find challenge in the game...

Would you be for or against enemy NPCs that could be as Stealthy as you? If an enemy archer fired off a bow shot from some hidden perch that didn't put up a red dot on your compass, or an enemy that silently stalked behind you (perhaps even invisibly) to go for a back stab.

How deep do you want RP and immersion to go?

I have the compass disabled. IMO If I can the NPCs should also be able to.

Can you eliminate NPC talking as well during attacks? It would be rather dumb if an enemy archer fired on you from a hidden point and then started shouting his battle phrases.

I usually teabag the douchiest bandits. In the name of immersion I want to see them do the same if they manage to kill me.

I don't think you can without mods. I also find it dumb especially when they bang on their shields so you can hit them.

I think these kind of enemies have generally more fun in multiplayer/online shooters, where you have squadmates to help sniff out a sniper. It's always cool to finally spot them, sneak up yourself, and kill them with the lamest weapon (a knife).

Anyways, I'm not against npcs like this, but it might be more fun if you had your own npc followers, some non-essential, and you get alarmed after one gets sniped. If you set up the map in a way where you have decent hiding points, it'd could be a nice game of cat and mouse. Otherwise, just getting randomly one-shotted is lame. It's not immersive, because I'm instantly dead and have to restart. Fictionally speaking, if you don't draw it out, there's no atmosphere to having the intensity of that kind of situation sinking in.

I wonder how many people like immersion but would not want enemies to be able to sneak attack them.

Don't know about you but I want enemies to sneak attack me and pickpocket. If those DB Assassins can't sneak attack me they should be called DB Thugs instead.

You're making the same mistake that far too many are prone to. You are taking a single gameplay situation and tossing it out there like some make or break issue. Would an occasional sniper be cool? Yes; it helps the illusion that you are in a world where others think and live and maybe even outsmart you. Every dungeon? Oh hell, no. That would be bad, lazy design. But in a couple of places, forcing you to actually stop and come up with some tactic to avoid or evade, sure. Because then you are actually interacting with the worldspace. Or an AI driven assassin after you from the Thalmor, let's say. Not one of the wilderness guidepost killers, but one who tracks you. One who can follow you just about anywhere. One you can learn about. And one you can try and take or escape from.

People rarely get the point across, but the issue is simple cause and effect. Linear game or sandbox, if you have no effect on the world, you can not role play in that world. The world doesn't know you exist. Ultimately, nothing you do matters or changes one bloody thing. Sitting back and making up a thousand page docudrama between your ears is not roleplaying. It's playing pretend. As I've pointed out, you beat Alduin at Throat of the World, and you don't have to worry about anything. You could play for 500 game years, and that bloody dragon would still be chowing down in Sovvengarde. He never comes back. As a world ending threat, he's like a sunday morning local wrestler: lots of noise, lots of strut, no substance whatsoever.

So yes, I want that occasional sniper. Pickpocket (can you imagine the kinds of story potential if the schmuck picks a quest item you need?). A world eater who is a genuine threat (simple timer and he comes back after X months......and say 10% stronger. Smack him down, reset and again, with a limited number of times before he is unbeatable, and you get to watch him chew the place up. Make it matter. Make it real). Dragons that attack the source of food and resistance; ie cities. Use geometry switching to have burning buildings, cold shattered stone structures, places that collapse under a dragon's weight. None of this is particularly high tech now. What it does take is CPU/GPU power, and a robust memory footprint.

So you walk around, doing your thing, then suddenly your neck is cut by an assassin.

You load back and now you are more wary of your surroundings...


Yeah... Immersive...

If balanced properly, it certainly is......

Want an example how far I want NPC's to go to fit in immersion?

NPC's or at least some time event should be able to go into my house and steal from me with a following quest to find out when it occurred and where the thieves went off too by asking neighboring NPC's, If I do not persue the quest I most likely won't see whatever was stolen again but if I do I can get it back. Of course this is just one example I could go on but it is quite a long list that will make some of the people on these forums rage because it does not fit well with their easy to do game.

Just to add to my previous suggestion, another that could work as an "alarm" (instead of having a npc follower get sniped) is an engine that allows for quick cut scenes. If you enter an area, maybe a quick pan to an arrow hitting a wall or tree next to your face. It requires more cinematic gameplay than I think this game might not be able to do, but I've seen similar things in other games. You have to at least give the player a moment to even be allowed to be cautious. Not some random gankage. That's not even fun in a rp sense. There's no narrative to it.

Nice to see that, as usual, most people don't know what "immersion" means....

More stupid random quests <> "immersion".

You had me up until this point, at which you managed to sound incredibly arrogant and pretentious.

Yes, I would like the enemies to have a stealth setup allowing them to use it against me. I also would like to see more variety among the vampires, but that is another discussion.

Well, that dark brotherhood khajit sneak on me all the time. but luckilly I survive. he doesn t have a bow thought.

there is a part missing in your question. do I accept them sneaking on me while I m in sneak mode.... (100% shadow warrior + silent spell + invisible + muffle, all the time)
I would say only if they use clairvoyance, it s possible, it would lead them to me, but then we need a counter spell

I don t have a problem with them keeping attacking me while delivering catch phrase or whatever, that would be cool

one thing that would help immersion is mandatory sleep like in faery tales (an old amiga games, way back)
in that game, you must sleep 8 hours every 24 hours. it s not exact,
but after a certain time (maybe 16 hours) your character start yawning
and if you keep going past that, not only you yawn more and more,
but you start sloushing, (your walk change) and finally (I think after 24 hours)
you will fall asleep on the spot !!!

that was rather cool !

real eating would be nice too. there are ways t do it, as most of the real data about eating, drinking is well known.
and you could have indicators and just make sure you eat enought meat, fruits and beggies
which could impact health, stamina, magika...
like the sleep routine above if you go past the maximum without a certain food or beverage ...
then there would be consequences
obviously dehydratation + starving eventually lead to coma + death
but long before that you would feel weak

I don t think it s hard to implement, or wold be much of a chore to live through.
but when they do the alykr desert, or when we go to the far north as I did, it would feel more real