Dovahkin, Descendant of the Septims? : V

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:14 pm

I just noticed this. According to the book "Book of the dragonborn" It states that akatosh blessed Queen Alessia and her descendants with the soul of a dragon. Apparently the last of queen Allissia's Descendants, The Septims, were wiped out during the oblivion crisis. There was another heir to the throne, another septim, and that septim is the descendant of the dragonborn...

Mindblown......

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:24 am

Nope. Martin was the last Septim, and he sacrificed himself to end the Oblivion Crisis. He was an illegitimate son - all of Uriel Septim's legitimate heirs were assassinated.

The Dragonborn in Skyrim was simply born with the soul of a Dragon. A blessing from Akatosh, I believe. He appeared at the same time as Alduin, thus fulfilling a prophecy and providing a chance to save the world from the World-Eater.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:50 am

Due to me constantly scouring UESP's site ever since Oblivion I remember this chart:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dynasty

Just use your imagination after that, it can end there at Martin Septim and his three brothers if you want to, or it could continue all the way down, hidden, to the birth of the dragonborn

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:21 am

You spelt Dovahkiin wrong...

You missed an 'i'

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:06 am

No and heres the reason. Septim line was labeled dragonblood not because they were dragonborn but because they were decedents of alleisa who was a dragonborn and they are part of the pact with akatosh because it binded all her deacendents as well. The descendents are from the same bloodline as the one who made the pact.

The only reason why their called dragonblood is BC their descendents of a dragonborn who made a pact with a dragon God, the God of time. Dragonborns are not passed on thru genes but are handpicked by the aedras and ends with said person. There's no passing it on thru genes.

edit- wasnt tiber who made the pact but allesia

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:17 am

just to clarify, the whole passing it on through genes thing was just a theory by someone in-game at some point, because from their point of view nobody really knows exactly how it works, we being out of the game have access to the knowledge that nobody of that particular blood-line exists anymore, and yet there is still a dragon-born, ergo it is not a genetic trait.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:58 am

Even the author of the book mentioned by the OP admits that there must be more to it than heredity.

Because of this connection with the Emperors, however, the other significance of the Dragonborn has been obscured and largely forgotten by all but scholars and those of us dedicated to the service of the blessed Talos, Who Was Tiber Septim. Very few realize that being Dragonborn is not a simple matter of heredity - being the blessing of Akatosh Himself, it is beyond our understanding exactly how and why it is bestowed. Those who become Emperor and light the Dragonfires are surely Dragonborn - the proof is in the wearing of the Amulet and the lighting of the Fires. But were they Dragonborn and thus able to do these things - or was the doing the sign of the blessing of Akatosh descending upon them? All that we can say is that it is both, and neither - a divine mystery.

The line of Septims have all been Dragonborn, of course, which is one reason the simplistic notion of it being hereditary has become so commonplace. But we know for certain that the early Cyrodilic rulers were not all related. There is also no evidence that Reman Cyrodiil was descended from Alessia, although there are many legends that would make it so, most of them dating from the time of Reman and likely attempts to legitimize his rule. We know that the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Blades, usually thought of as the Emperor's bodyguards, originated in http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Akavir crusaders who invaded http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tamriel_(continent) for obscure reasons in the late http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:First_Era. They appear to have been searching for a Dragonborn - the events at http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pale_Pass bear this out - and the Akaviri were the first to proclaim Reman Cyrodiil as Dragonborn. In fact it was the Akaviri who did the most to promote his standing as Emperor (although Reman himself never took that title in his lifetime). And of course there is no known hereditary connection between Tiber Septim and any of the previous Dragonborn rulers of Tamriel.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:02 pm

The only problem with the book, is the author dosent know about the details of the pact like we the users do. Hes going off the pupolar opionion. Dragonborns are not hereditary, the dragonblood is that the emporers were not of Tibers direct bloodline, but of the original dragonborn lady who made the pact with akatosh to protect against oblivion gates, agajn not tibers actual bloodline but that of fate the bloodline of the dragonborn lady so long ago. The details of the pact was made secret to the public for obvious reasons of protection, and that the mythic dawn cult learned of the true details behind the pact from mehrunes dagon. Before the mythic cult found out, only the high ranking blades and the emporers AFTER they preformed the cedemony were the only ones that knew the relation to the bloodline and whatnot, all other info yhe public had was speculation without actual fact, something us the player does have though.

But the information that the amulant was a giant soulstone that cased all the previous emporer's souls was kept as a deep secret that none of the public knew about.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials_of_St._Alessia

dragonborn are born with the souls of dragons, the emporers were blessed with the blood of akatosh thru the pact.

BUT i will agree it not cut in stone and theres still a mystery behind it. Are the dragonblood born that way, or are they that way AFTER the ritual which would explain why even dunmer emporers were able to keep it lit. Tbh i honest id like to change my opionion that its fromt he decendents physically from allessia, more like the decendents of her traits maybe. In which during the ritual, akatosh imbuins his blood into the emporer after the emporer places a spell for their soul to go into the amulant when they die to light the fire.

So id say, IF there was a reason for the need of dragonfires again if a dragonborn could find a way to reestablish the pact or if the pact is still on which i dont think it is, i see it more of a single get out of jail free card since mehrunes dagon was cursed from leper demon prince into mehrunes dagon by alduin, one of the things of the curse was that mehrunes was allowed back into the mortal realm only after great preparation, maening mehrunes can coem again. If so then yes. but i believe it would mean establishing a new pact though.

edit-sorry had to delete soem stuff i didnt agree with afterwards lol. also these are my opionions, not fact. the whole thing is still soemwhat amystery, just not as big of a mystery.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:10 am

Martin Septim had meddled with daedric princes in his youth, specifically with Sanguine. Now, given what the Dovahkin was about to do in "A Night to Remember", I think it's not too mind-blowing to imagine Martin Septim having done something along the same lines: running off with somebody to elope, perhaps impregnating someone on the way.

It's also not really mind-blowing to realize that most probably not all of the Septims were faithful to their spouses and that there are probably a whole lot of descendants of Septim bastard children around.

Such a backstory could work for any race (offspring of interracial couples have the racial specifics of the mother, with some traits of the race of the father), except for Argonians. Egg-hatching reptiles like them and mammals like Imperials just can't interbreed.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:27 am

Martin Septim had meddled with daedric princes in his youth, specifically with Sanguine. Now, given what the Dovahkin was about to do in "A Night to Remember", I think it's not too mind-blowing to imagine Martin Septim having done something along the same lines: running off with somebody to elope, perhaps impregnating someone on the way.

It's also not really mind-blowing to realize that most probably not all of the Septims were faithful to their spouses and that there are probably a whole lot of descendants of Septim bastard children around.

Such a backstory could work for any race (offspring of interracial couples have the racial specifics of the mother, with some traits of the race of the father), except for Argonians. Egg-hatching reptiles like them and mammals like Imperials just can't interbreed.

You pretty much nailed what I was wanting to say. Rulers tend to not worry much about spreading the seed around (even though that can surely bite them in the rear later....)

And of course, if the first ruler spread it around a lot, with a fair number of illegitimate offspring resulting, and each of THEM did likewise down through the years.... there's likely a sufficiency of the "blood" still living a couple of hundred years down the road.

I've always thought there was more to Martin's backstory and his choice to be a penitent priest than we ever got to know.... And.... if the ruler and/or HIS offspring were good mages there's no reason they couldn't manage the cross between egg-parents and live-birth parents.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:13 am

I can agree to that, but would the dovahkin need to start up a new bargain because akatosh fulfilled the bargain and the amulet is gone and broken? Would there be a need for a new pact for the oblivion gates? Im thinkimg mehrunes dagon can only try to come once each kalpa, maybe akatosh keeps setting up pacts to keep mehrunes dagon from fulfilling his curse and keeping him a daeddic prince?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:45 am

Good questions, redneck. And they echo things I've thought myself over the games and years.