Agreed, Skyrim would benefit well from a FO:NV style hardcoe mode that included this as well.

Nice try, but they're not. Like I said, best bet is waiting for a third-party mod to address this issue. As for console players, don't hold your breath.

No NO! Bethesda don't listen to them...just stay the corse. Can be nothing but smooth sailing from here.
I mean just think of all that money you made...

I'm not saying it has to be done now or even for Skyrim ... but a little forethought into ES VI would be nice ...

But Cicero's essential status toggles on and off, just for one example I can think of.

I think it's absolutely hilarious that Olava the FEEBLE is set as essential so my huge Orc Barbarian warrior is busting heads left and right but has to run from a crippled old woman with a dagger.

Guild members, tavern goers, temple occupants, merchants, and courtiers simply ignored attacks. Only the people shuffling around outside the towns could be attacked.

I wouldn't mind this approach in newer TES games. If you attack someone essential, the attack simply does no damage, they don't turn hostile, it isn't reported as a crime (since a bounty can't be removed if you can't kill the victim). The part of essential NPC's in this game that bothers me is the whole 'fall to one knee, then get back up and proceed to chase and fight the player.' It is incredibly stupid. If the idea is to disallow the player from killing these NPC's, simply have them ignore attacks completely.

Turning off essential NPC's is, unfortunately, a slippery slope. Killing an NPC that isn't supposed to be killed can have consequences you may not foresee. This includes the simple immersion-breaking of other NPC's not acknowledging the victim NPC's death. Obviously Bethesda would not have written and voiced dialogue acknowledging the death of an NPC that they flagged as unkillable.

Another potential solution is making the cities larger and populating them with generic unnamed NPC's (much like the farmers and mercenaries wandering the roads). It would be a chore to implement and might cause FPS problems on certain rigs, but it would provide murderous types with plenty of clear safe targets.

Giving them at least 100 HP and Semi-essential follower status would work... but I hate that Argonian in Solitude - his quest screams "KILL ME!" - especially when .

On a completely unrelated note, you have a cute avatar.

But then you can't earn achievements if you kill off certain quest givers; that would violate Xbox rules I think.

You can still earn those achievements - Just start a new game

ALL NPCS should be killable, every one. The only caveat being how hard to kill. Some npcs should be so tough and\or so well protected that even a highest level player could not kill them. there are ways to do it so it`s more realistic.

Of course, some wazzak will no doubt go into the console amd make himself superman so he can kill everything anyway. I myself am not dumb enough to kill everything and only kill that which tries to kill me.

But if the Player does kill everything and finds himself in a world of emptiness that`s his own fault and hopefully he won`t come here to post, "I killed everything and now none of my quests will work!"

But they obviously want to make sure you can get every achievement with a single character.

It is certainly possible for NPCs to toggle essential status, it also happens for Astrid cause you can kill her instead of joining the DB but not afterwards.

Funny thing is, my opinion of course, some of the posters in this thread plus even more rabid attack dogs will come to these forums and cause them to ignite in fire as they whine and cry that so and so died, i cant complete quest i killed so and so 5 hours ago, I cant find so and so....so on and so forth.

A toggle would be nice for those that actually want it, tho i still believe even then there will be whine posts.

I wish the minute you choose one side or the other, the opposing side becomes killable..looking at you imperial camps >.<

But even with all that I wished were changed, I would never wish to see the endless flood of tears if they changed the current system.

Just my 2 septims of course.

I don't mind certain "Big Players" like Ulfric Stormcloak being unkillable without the quest to do so - I like their decision that when faced between Realistic Security and keeping the leaders accessible, they went for the latter. Of course, there are other ways they could have accomplished that - such as Radiant Story having mini-quests to take assassination into account.

However, there should be a quest to kill the Thieves' Guild, started by assaulting any member, and another one to kill Maven Black Briar.

I agree, the ONLY invensible NPC's there should be are those related to the MQ or the Civil War... everyone else the player should be able to kill and if that happens then you should no longer be able to join there guild or do there quest.

I think they did it that way because of the dragons honestly... if so they need to make it so when a dragon attacks everyone but the guards finds a builiding or cave to run into for safety. I hate that there are basically very little repercussions for the things you do.

I really don't mind this feature. There are plenty of people to kill, I can handle a little divine intervention here and there.

I only kill those I feel I have reason to, playing a mostly good (Albeit violent) character. Maven Black-Briar and that Argonian in Solitude are two of them.

Need killable npcs like...

CAn't see why Rallf Storm-Fist is unkillable.

I can see why Bethesda would include unkillable NPCs due to the dragons, but why are there so many is my question. There are unimportant NPCs that Bethesda gave the essential status. For some examples would be the Jarls and housecarls of the defeated side in Civil War and not only them there are drunks who are unimportant except for a onetime brawl that only gives you 200 gold. I just wish there wasn't as many essential NPCs. Couldn't Bethesda just turn off the essential status after you finished the NPC's quest?

Sounds like an interesting experiment. Try it.

Yeah, this and the fact that I can join the Dark Brotherhood after they made a contract for my death .
It's a single-player game, remember. The world should crumble or prosper however the player sees it through, as no other player would be effected. I could careless about 'broken' quests. Should just automatically make them 'Failed' in my journal, whether or not they are already in there, cuz' I never intend to do all of them anyway. Or have the quest pass on to another NPC, like Bethesda promoted a lot before release.

My character is his own guy, with his own preferences, etc. He's not out to do it all. I'll just create other characters if I want to.

This was one of my favorite things in Morrowind. Oblivion ticked me off, but at least the unkillable, orcish female stable owner near the Imperial City did not fight back, and no crime was issued.