Hi guys. I've never played Elder Scrolls games before (the first person perspective of previous games would make me queasy) but have a played the likes of Dragon Age and Mass Effect in the past. In those games I have always role played the standard heroic character, making the choices you would expect (helping all characters in distress and trying to be noble, just and fair in my actions at all times). However I've decided to try and do something completely different for my first playthrough of Skyrim. I want to be an evil self centred Dunmer who does just about the exact opposite of what my previous characters would do. I started the game with this approach and soon I had murdered an innocent hunter and his dog just because their existence was meaningless to my character, and sold some loot to a travelling salesman before killing him and taking everything he had. So far so good then. However when I got to Riverwood, I went into the store where the shopkeeper and his sister were. She left after our conversation and I decided to murder the shopkeeper and take his wares as it seemed in keeping with my character. However he wouldn't die, and then his sister returned and obviously started attacking me because I was trying to murder her brother. When I defended myself, I killed her and was notified I failed the quest related to her. I still couldn't kill the shop keeper and feared I couldn't leave the shop as he would alert the rest of the town to my actions. During my confusion and uncertainty of what to do next, he killed me.

So I'm now becoming aware of significant pitfalls of trying to role play an evil character. By killing random characters, I'm likely to close off quest opportunities, and may also expose myself to situations where I try to kill non killable characters which will spectacularly screw up my plan of action. I don't want my experience to constantly be interrupted by having to reload due to screwing up so I'm wondering how do others role play evil characters? Are there a few rules of thumb to keep in mind in order to play 'evil'? Or would I be better off gaining the full experience and learning the mechanics of the Elder Scrolls games by playing 'normally' for my first playthrough? I could just play 'bad' meaning I'm not trying to constantly kill everyone, but that didn't seem to be as much fun in theory when I was deciding how I wanted to play.

So if anybody has any advice here, I'd appreciate it. I don't have endless amounts of free time and I'd like to get stuck into Skyrim in a way that doesn't lead to me regretting the 30 to 50 hrs I put in when I find that the game is not enjoyable due to the role I chose to play.

TIA

Phil

Just reload previous saves... being evil doesn't mean you have to kill everyone and everything. There are still many ppl you can slaughter.

Also, join the dark brotherhood.

Yes, get involved with the scum of society where your evil char belongs... also, you can be a ruthless villain who doesn't murder the innocent. You don't have to be a psychopath, right? Think of it as fleecing the sheep, or not killing the goose that lays your golden egg. Be a criminal mastermind that is a haunting shadow in a dark alleyway that is gone with a whisper of the wind... or some garbage like that.

Take what you can -- give nothing back!
-Loth

evil does not murder everything he comes across, that seems like a shadowed embodiment of chaotic evil to me

and it would be nice if you gave us yoru class along with it, a deathknight would be perfect searching for deadric quests so he can become stronger, an assassin would be perfect in the dark brotherhood (although they are not inherantly evil they work great for an evil character), theives' guild would be good for manipulative bastard thief type of evil, now you jsut have to think about the quests you want take

There was a guy on here back a month or so complaining about teh very fact that he could not kill anyone he wanted to kill. He offered his five year one time play through with umpteen various save points and an unresolvable "win" as evidence of why the particular game he played was so "great". The trade-off in open world games is that some characters (from the point of the story playthrough) MUST be unkillable. That, or they'd need inifinite replacement NPCs with the same offerings. I know, you're not complaining about this, but just FYI.

Playing an "evil" character is NOT playing a "stupid" character. Think about your actions first. How many spree killers actually get past their first "spree"? An evil character will still need to make choices. You escape death and get to Riverwood. Your only source of CONTINUED income, that you're aware of, at this point is the shopkeeper and the blacksmith. Why would you kill people who are useful to you? What is your motivation for doing so? No, you USE those you can USE. You KILL those who are useless and/or "deserve" killing. Although, conceivably, a truly evil character would not be beyond killing a follower just to raise that follower as a zombie, he/she wouldn't kill someone who could be used just for the sake of killing them.

If you're still up on killing whomever you wish, that's cool. You'll just have to "do your time" when (if) you're caught.

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'll try respond to each suggestion in sequence.

Reloading: That's not the way I want to play if I can help it. I want to keep going and live by decisions I take, but it does seem if I keep playing the way I am currently I will end up reloading more often than I'd like so that is something I will likely need to reconsider.

No need to be psychotic/chaotically evil: True, but that was actually the way I wanted to play. As I've said, I normally play virtuous roles, as I think it's more natural to me, but I wondered what it would be like to just go the complete opposite, which seemed like it should be someone who kills without reason other than because he wants to. Perhaps he has no desire but to see the world burn? I dunno, maybe such a character would prove to be less interesting than I thought, but I wanted to give it a go to see how it played out. ('problematically' seems to be the outcome)

Non killable NPCs: Thanks for the clarification. It's what I was suspecting, and yes, I wasn't complaining about it, but just unsure about how it would affect my attempts to play such an extreme character. From the sounds of it, I can't play the way I was playing without ruining my game because for some strange reason the game isn't designed to be played psychopathically

Classes: Forgive my likely ignorance, but I did not think I had to have chosen a class yet? I'm playing as a Dunmer Elf (as originally stated) and haven't figured out which skillsets I want to maximise yet. If that's incorrect and I am already a specified class at this stage, then I'd welcome advice on how to tell what it is I've already selected. I'm very intrigued as to the indication of quests/guilds that suit more evil characters, so any pointers in that respect would be appreciated.

'Using' Riverwood: This is good advice and seems essential based on the mechanics of the game. I think this may be where my lack of ES experience comes in and makes me glad I came on here for advice. You see, to me, Riverwood was nothing more than I place I happened across (I actually was trying to avoid the first quest but lost my bearings and ended up there anyway!) and I saw it as nothing more than a place I may obtain some good loot before I moved on with no intention of returning unless it was again for pass through pillaging. I see now that Riverwood is a base I need to try and use to make my character stronger before I decimate it

Apologies if some of these lines of questioning are basic/non sensical/ or just unsuitable from the point of view of proper skyrim gameplay, but I just felt compelled for some reason to forego my standard virtuous playthrough and literally had no idea how to play 'evil' efficiently.

Cheers

You might do well to focus some of your char's development on stealth and thievery. I would avoid lockpicking perks, even though they sorta seem nifty at first. You do not need/want them, believe me! Pickpocket has some fun perks, and pickpocketing in general is something you may want to try out anyway, seeing as how your dude is so morally deficient. Stealth will help you greatly, and makes you a more efficient murderer. Backstabbing bonuses are very nice. Make friends with a dagger or two... give them names, like Slicey and Ouchy, or something. Also, archery can benefit from sneak attacks, and this might be something to consider.

-Loth

I married his sister than realized when I moved in with her that he was still living with her. Unacceptable so I did a sneak arrow attack on him while he was sleeping and he died. She became the head shopkeeper. Try this approach if you want to kill him.

There really is no way to be evil in this game. Bethesda thinks they are so clever by determining morality by the quests you don't quest you take/don't take, but yet add no morality to the quest themselves. For example, in Molag Bal's quest, have an option that refuses him, or say "can I do that again? It was fun!"

I play an evil character myself, and the only 2 people I actually killed were Sven and the elf (now I can't remember his name). They were feuding over the woman I love, so I had to take matters into my own hands.

I hired Sven and took him to Bleak Falls Barrow where we met a group of bandits fortifying a tower along the mountain path. He met his unfortunate end there that day. (By unfortunate end, I mean, I ended up killing him). When he died, he died in such a way that he actually look like he was sitting in a chair near the top of the tower. For all they'll ever know, he simply fell asleep and the bandits killed him before I got my revenge on them.

As for the elf, he was a tad more difficult to deal with. In the end, I murdered him in his sleep. I felt bad for Sven's mother, and I knew she would want to join her son -- so I broke into her house (with the key I stole from sven's body) and attempted to kill her. She was stronger than I anticipated. I expected that frail old witch to die in one hit. She ran outside, and for some very strange reason, decided to take a bath in the river. I killed her there and her body floated down stream. I thought that was cool as hell. Got stuck under the mill, and nobody is the wiser.

Killing people in the game is fun, but only when I can come up with a nice backstory to accompany it. Senseless killing is pointless -- plenty of bandits along the way to get my frustrations out on.

Want to be a little more evil?

Not sure if this is something that can be teached, but I will give ya some advice.

Random killing/ killing everyone. IF you enjoy doing this, then do it, don't let people convince you otherwise. Just be prepared to accept the consqeuences. (being chased out of towns, going to jail, dieing)

Join Dark Brotherhood/ Thieves Guild. IF this helps you get into the mindset, then do it. Dark brotherhood especially should help you get into the mood. Once again this is optional, I don't do it because they aren't "my" type of evil.

Play a certain way or be a certain class. Evil does not have a "class" nor a "playstyle", evil is what evil does. A warrior is evil when he plunges his sword into the heart of an unarmed maiden because she was accompanying a dead enemy.

A mage is evil when he kills his own companion by accident by using powerful spells and feels no regret.

A thief is evil when he robs a beggar on the street.

It is a mentality. No one can really tell you how to do it.

It's easy to be evil, just do practically every quest in the game. A good character would need to be careful about the morality of the quests they accept and the consequences involved. As an evil character, you do quests for the reward and that's it, no need to examine the possible consequences as you get paid somehow.

You really don't need to kill everybody unless you really want to go overboard with the Chaotic Evil, but if you do, do it stealthily and make sure you can kill any witnesses. Don't commit crimes in front of essential characters like quest-givers, can't off most of them.

I always play a "Neutral Evil" kind of character. I rarely kill people without a reason, but when I do feel like it I do. I killed the priest in Whiterun because he was annoying, I killed a family somewhere in an inn in the wild because I felt like it and noone was around. I kill any wanderers I find, if they happen to carry good stuff.
Saving just before killing someone and reloading might not be your type of gameplay, but it sure does help when trying to find out who and how you can kill... in any case, you might consider it a birth gift of your character, something like being able to see divinations about the future and such

Class doesn' really matter much, however for that line of work what you probably need is a sniper (archery, sneak, light armor, bit of pickpocketing/1-h for aid, enchanting/smithing if you want to be strong). If you get in the right place, you can kill most people without being found out.
Or you could roleplay a black reaper-necromancer (conjuration, 2-h and other stuff) just for the sheer evil badassery

and here comes the biggest bummer: you cant murder kids in skyrim: +1 for immersion huh? thoughts so too (plus some really deserve to die)

There is a mod of course if you are on PC.

Only real advice I would have is don't follow the main quest, ignore the greybeards and head off to join the thieves guild and trigger the dark brotherhood quest. Lots or dark and dubious things to do in the game if you aren't know as the dragonborn to every guard in skyrim.

How about you be a vampire, and joining the empire? Although you can try to ignore quests if someone asked you to do.

I think almost everything was touched on previously, but here's my two cents.

When thinking of "inherently evil", most people tend to assume it's a sneaky character who uses bows/daggers, and I'm usually in that majority. Don't let that dictate your playstyle, though. The DB is pretty good for getting into the mindset.

All in all, take all this advice with a grain of salt and figure out what works for you.

Good luck, and welcome to ES!

If you need help to create an evil character I think you should stick to being a good guy.
For me it just comes naturally when playing.

Just want to start by thanking each and every person who replied to this topic. The replies have been educational, and inspiring for what I want to do in equal measure. I'll pick out a few items to respond to as they appeared in the thread ...

Stealth and Thievery: Yeah, they fit the character alright, and I've never played a game focusing on either skill so that fits in with my wish to play differently, so I'll probably give them a go.

Marrying Trader's sister: That's fantastic! I love that someone figured out a way to kill him. I may keep this in mind and carry it out just as a nod of respect to this thread at some time in the future.

@Valadir : That was great. I know what you mean about killing for a reason, and that's sorta the way I intend to play going forward. I'm going to try and use the characters around me to aid my rise to power but if someone crosses me and I don't see a use for them, I'll look to backstab them repeatedly until they fall down

Dark Brotherhood: Having steered clear of spoilers thus far, I don't know a lot about this guild but they do sound to be the type of guys I'll want to hang around with. I think I've heard you get backstabbing bonus from being a member? That would be cool.

@Leold: Love the avatar, and coincidentally my evil character is named Biggus dikeus!

'Neutral Evil': yeah that sounds like the way I want to try playing going forward

Classes/Skills : Not sure how I definitely want to play yet, but the advice here has been very helpful towards making that choice in the coming days/weeks.

No Murdering of Kids: That's way worse than a bummer. Thank god there's a mod for this! Must go grab that asap. Kids can be the most annoying things on the planet and in-game kids are even worse, so I need to be able to wipe them out or I might turn on myself!

Avoid the main quest: This may prove to be invaluable advice for this playthough as it seems like quests of interest to me would be unavailable if I progress on the main quest, is that right?

Vampire: That sounds class! But as above would that close any significant doors for me? It wouldn't restrict me to 'nighttime' movement only would it? I do want to explore the dark side of the game but not necessary if it means I miss out on significant parts of it.

@roosterdad: I know what you're saying but I'm just looking for a change of pace. Being virtuous is likely more natural to me alright but I've done that in a number of rpgs in the past. I could have tried to go evil on my own, but I didn't want to waste hours coming to terms with the new strategies that aren't 'natural' to me, so I've just looked for some pointers to help me get immersed quicker and I think I've gotten them. Not trying to be the best (worst?) evil character ever, but just get down with my dark side for a change

@Everyone: Honestly, this is far more advice and help than I ever expected. You are all a credit to this community and the fact that you all probably think nothing of taking the time to help out in this and so many other threads is testament to how strong this community is. I'll check back on this thread just in case there are further replies, but I definitely have enough to stop talking and start playing for a while. Thanks again, but as I now leave to get in character, may the fleas of a thousand camels rest in all your armpits, and if you ever come across me in Skyrim, I wouldn't turn my back if I were you

vampires are tricky. you can go out at day time but you have to keep feeding. the longer you leave the feeding the more sun damage you take.

Sounds bloody awkward ... no pun intended. I may leave this aspect until a later playthrough but it is interesting nonetheless.

As far as the Dark Brotherhood backstab damage goes, yeah, some of the armor gives you a % increase. Very useful.

Funny end to this thread ...

Having completed the Golden Claw quest and therefore being bestest buds (in his eyes anyway) with the trader at Riverwood, I exited the shop. I don't know if it was coincidental or causal, but the trader followed me. I ignored him and was experimenting with the inventory when without intent I slashed aimlessly with the new weapon I had selected just at the exact time the trader happened to walk past me. I clipped him and he took offence and attacked me. Expecting I would have to reload to get away from his lazarus impersonations anyway, I decided to kill him at least once for being so stupid and walking into my dagger swipe. Imagine my shock when he stayed dead! I returned to the shop and his sister was still friendly to me, so it looks like the perfect crime! I'm unclear why I could now kill him, but I expect it's either because he was not in the shop at the time, or because I completed the golden claw quest. Either way, I'm pleased to have found a nice workaround here, so I guess the lesson learned is "evil always finds a way"

Yup. That shopkeeper was now killable, because you completed his quest.

Good... erm... I mean... bad luck.