Whats up guys? > http://skyrimcalculator.com/#84744 here are a list of perks to go to level 50 on a Dark Elf vampire, I really want to invest heavily into Illusion/Destruction but in the end I'll be using Ebony flesh as defense. I really want to dip into speech at least 4 perks maybe more but need to know where to cut can you offer suggestions?

Tough stuff.

I assume you are just unlocking one-handed for the dual daggers- and you are using assassins blade for your melee offense.
Invisibility to back that up from illusion tree prolly? no problems there

Destruction you are gonna fling icicles eh? Well even with 2 augment frost they are gonna do 37 damage, it really is not going to be alot of firepower.

I suppose- if you need to cut 4 perks, cut alterations resist magic. Get yourself lord stone instead- since you are taking atronach at the top of alteration tree it will eventually even out. Also you could cut alterations dual cast, since you are already getting a 50% time increase on your armor because of vampire skillz.

If you are on PC i suggest getting the "extend mage armor time" mod. Once again shame on bethesda for making the duration so annoyingly short

Up to you, but another easy fix is to just cut alchemy altogether. I mean the potions are easy to come by anyways..that would give you 5 perks. could pick up master of the mind with that as well.

I'm going to eventually reduce cost to zero on illusion and destruction so I can cast expert level destruction skills, its just going to be a pain doing that until I get enchantment up, I'm thinking taking (1) one from first level enchantment perks because I can still get to 25%x2 for destruction and illusion on a piece of equipment and (3) from magic resistance and take the atronach stone stone. I don't like to mess with the vanilla settings too much I previously did a Destruction/alteration mage and tried using dragonhide that was a mistake.

Can anyone provide anymore feedback on this topic?

Why alteration ?

The better question would be...Why Speech?

You look pretty good to me. That is pending your playstyle. If you are not too picky about uaing the Alc/Enc loop and just use it to offset the perks, you can shave off a couple of the 5/5 in each to be 1/5 in Alchemy and 1/5 in Enchanting. That would give you perks to spend elsewhere. I would max out Illusion before Alteration. Then again it depends on your playstyle and RPing.

Playing a S4V-24/7 is the best time I have had with ANY char so far. Good Luck.

why do you go down both the right and left side of illusion? Kindered mage overides them i think as it works accross the board and if not you can duel cast so that makes up the difference there's 3 points back right there.

spread out your Alchemy more, refunding 1 point.

take assasians blade out as its not needed and is rather OP, by all means take it back you still have 5 extra points.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#85222

the below build is where id put them in speech for you. i have also gone up to 51 as ''necromage'' from resto applies to you as a vampire so all enchants etc are increased by a great percentage.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#85231

Look at his armsman's perks, it looks obvious to me that he intends to use dual daggers and sneak attacks for his melee weapons. If he doesn't consider it OP, then it isn't for his game.

It doesn't override. They stack. I always fill up that tree.


I agree with that.


By having the appearance of being an Assassin type char/vamp. Assassin's Blade is not a waste by ant means. I would keep that. The idea is to one shot the enemy anyway. If that fails, you are detected and the hits go from being deadly to being a bee sting.


Of course one is to do as they see fit with their character. Although I still fail to see how spending valuable perks in Speech grants the rewards over the cost. There is an unlimited supply of gold in the game. After you get your house, spells and gear, those perks become obsolete. I would rather invest perks in something that would benefit my character for the entire game.

EDIT : So far none of my Vamps have used Destruction, or any character for the matter. Still, taking the Necromage perk is an idea that I would entertain if I was planing to forego a Destruction Vamp. It would still be very viable for one anyway. I have just ended up putting them somewhere else, for one reason or another. One day I will do the Necromage, no doubt.

This has got to be an RP choice I think, thats why I don't question his reasons for wanting it.

Not trying to hate, but I feel like you're trying to do too much at once.

Sneaking negates the need for armor/Alteration. Pick one or the other. I would ignore Alteration if I were you, since that frees up 13 perks.
Destruction damage is pretty bad. You could probably ignore that too...
Apprentice-level cost reduction perks will become obsolete. Remove.
Alchemy doesn't fit this build, unless you are using it for Destruction damage... Questionable to keep, remove if you ignore Destruction
DO take Master of the Mind.

Result:
http://skyrimcalculator.com/#85242
Even keeping Destruction/Alchemy, you still have 8 perks to spare at level 50.

It can be used a little to help but its not the best skill.

Sneak negates the need for armor/alteration? Thats news to me, even as a vampire and 100 sneak/invisibility/muffle boots I do get caught every once in a while, or sometimes bump into a creature when I am sneaking around, so you will still take hits.

Unless you don't mind reloading a bunch..

I agree completely with the RPing part. And I would fully support anyone doing so for that reason. It wasn't clear on the intent. That is why I was concerned about the interest. The OP is looking to shave perks. The Speech thing could misinterpreted as a necessity. I just wanted to make sure.

No kidding.

Even though I choose to not forego ANY armor perks. One still should be prepared. I pump health after my Magicka gets to 230 and I never put anything into Stamina. That is just me, besides the OP is not selecting bout Lt Armor and Mage Armor.

Thanks for all the help, to clear everything up here are a few replies in no particular order;

I want to go up the right side of speech to make intimidation and persuasion checks easier. I find that a large part of vampire lore (perhaps not ES lore) is that they are persuasive and can bend the will of other people.

Alteration mainly to run Ebony flesh + Mage armor as my character is wearing cloth from a RP perspective you can sneak and move in the shadows. IMO alteration is the best magic school it has so much utility that any mage I make is going to rely on alteration.

I don't use restoration from a RP perspective, heal spells are for the living and leveling restoration strictly on Wards and turn undead seems way too difficult as for restoration in fights I'll use potions but I'm hoping I won't need them unless I'm fight a dragon (ancient or otherwise) that relies on fire.

I enjoy using alchemy for restoration, destruction fortification, and to a lesser extent poisons. Since I'm not healing myself I really need some perks in alchemy.

As far as reducing apprentice level perks on destruction and illusion I can't do that as I'm not grinding hardcoe in the beginning.

My thinking after hearing all the feedback is to drop one point from alchemy and Magicka Resists from alteration.

This was under the assumption that Illusion is kept. If you mess up, just cast Calm/Pacify and try again. EZ Mode.

I'm playing an assassin character right now on Master with 100 HP and 0 armor. The only time I die is if I get impatient, and even then only when my Illusion spells miss. I'm not saying this to brag, just show you that I'm not talking out my butt.

Sorry- I didn't mean to imply that you were, I just think we have different ideas on what is and is not an acceptable death rate. I play master too, and with zero armor- you get caught against a 2-hander you'd better hope you get your spell off first, or you are getting finish-animationed

good to know but to be honest with kindered and duel casting you wont get immunes anyway (or not in my experience)


I agree but x15 is overkill and it becomes more fun when you dont have it in my opinion...always have invis to get more sneak attacks off each to there own though.


while i agree, necromage is extremly powerfull as a vamp and requires no casting if your using wards to lvl it anyway why not take it? from a RP perspective i imagine a vampire would train in order to recieve such a perminent increase in strength etc.


i agree


its sweet

Question: how do you deal with higher level dragons with that build? I've never tried sneak assassin or illusionist so its going to be quite different. I spent about 200 hours on a destruction/ alteration mage that I absolutely loved and my first play-through was an archer/2H that wore heavy armor.

I carry Calm in my offhand for just this reason haha

Better option: Fury him so he kills all his friends. it's very easy to sneak up on a single guy.
Extra easy option: Calm him afterwards, then assassinate him.

Well I've been ignoring the main quest, so I actually haven't come across one yet (Just finished the DB last night). My intention is to take a follower or Shadomere who can tank for a little while, while I go invisible and take 30x pot shots which will be doing over 300 damage each (that's after the 1/2 damage multiplier). This way I should not be taking physical damage whatsoever. I'm not yet sure how I'm going to handle breaths, but the tank/sneak strategy should still apply.

Since you are doing enchanting, you should pretty easily be able to get really good magic resistance, which combined with your racial bonus should give you pretty nice damage mitigation on that half of the spectrum.

you have to really and i mean really time your attacks well, im playing the 100hp build aswell (linked in my thread) 40hp in sunlight as im always S4 even with great resists you cant take too many hits (unless you exploit which defeats the point ofcourse) infact im still dead in one dragons breath (fire) even with resists, frost is a different story i can take *drum roll* 3 hits.

basically run and ''kite'' them to a place where you can hide with cover of rocks to dodge breaths etc and it gets a whole lot easier, ofcourse you can take a follower but in my expereince they die rather fast too and it isnt -as- fun.

if you want some more in-depth reading about 100hp/40hp and tactics take a look a the link in my thread it has some great info in there for both archery and melee sneaks.


as i said above use rocks / walls anything around to dodge them but be quick! i find my rank1 unrelentin shout interupts them (im ignoring the MQ aswell)

in an open fireld? run like wind!

Delete double post

Yep, I will be doing that if necessary.

My main concern is whether or not I will be able to be hidden from them in order to perform sneak attacks, because my 22 damage dagger is not going to do anything otherwise (unless Mehrunes' Razor procs).

haha yeh, i have had moments when i really have had trouble fighting dragons in that sense, just ''sneaking'' doesnt do the trick they just keep running/flying for you what i have to do is use invis and run-round quickly and jab them then run back but to be honest that doesn't always work for me either, if you find a sure-fire solution let me know!


Rumour: i have heard that if you run towards them and dodge there breath then flank them you do regain sneak and can attack that way too, though whenever i've tried this i've ended up as a fried lizard.

I just wanted to update this thread and basically things are going great with this RP in retrospect I wouldn't have put a perk into destruction apprentice, nor would I have put perks into one handed, honestly once I got 15x damage with daggers its not necessary. I'm going to put those points into alchemy to make better poisons/potions.