So I cracked out my old copy of Morrowind. I never finished the main quests, so I might actually do it this time. It just got me thinking though... these games haven't really changed that much over time. I don't understand the hate for Skyrim from diehard Morrowind fans. The basic "spirit" of TES is still all here. They essentially feel like the same type of game. It's only in the details that there are differences - but is that enough to cry foul?

I agree..tes is still tes, mechanics dont make the game, story and rp does..

I mostly agree with what you're saying.

Basically the only thing I don't like about Skyrim (so far) is the fact that you can't level up your jumping and running.

I would actually be in favour of some slightly more drastic changes to the series in the future, to spruce up the "formula" (and a great formula it is, if it can be called that).

For the elitist trolls who are here to bash Skyrim, that is plenty to cry foul over. These guys could start a fight about Beth not having included Bill Cosby. They'd just make some claims about how "the spirit of Bill was vibrant and alive throughout Morrowind and Daggerfall". Then they'd start an argument about there not being enough math in Skyrim. Threads pretty much go downhill from there.

The over arching massive scale and the great story are still there, but the gameplay and minor things change each time.

I agree too. The games change. Some changes we approve of, some we don't. I am having more fun playing Skyrim than any game I've played since Morrowind.

I'd much rather have them take risks than "rehash" it every time like certain stale series (of course, with only two games in 10 years, it would be pretty stupid if they did that). Any good series is going to do what it's good at - and change the details every time.

Bottomline is dumbed down game is dumbed down. Keep playing and you'll see everything that's been gutted.

Game Developers get a lot less credit than they deserve. Change too much and people will complain that the series is going in the wrong direction. Staying conservative with a 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude and people will complain that the series is becoming stale. Developers always have to shoot for a happy medium (usually).

Here we go with the stats/mathematics argument just like I predicted. Any moment and Bill Cosby shall join the frey!

I was was of those who, while loving Oblivion, spoke out loudly against its failing versus Morrowind in my opinion. I thought Oblivion was a giant step backwards. For me, Skyrim is even better than Morrowind in most ways. I love this game.

Man you must really hate Skyrim. I've seen you post comments in the Skyrim section before. I don't mind that you don't like it, but I'm just curious to why you come here if you don't like the game.

Yeah. Even people who complain about them (and I'm not discounting their opinions) probably still play them. That's not something everyone would do for, say, a Pokemon game (and neither am I bashing Pokemon, but obviously they stay very similar). Everyone is going to want to at least TRY an Elder Scrolls games.

Must be an enormous amount of pressure on Bethesda. It's exciting stuff, though, looking ahead (and also back, to see how things have changed).

I believe the street term for him is "troll", but I can't be sure.
Either that or he's a man on a mission to make every game in the world like Morrowind/Arena/Daggerfall
You decide.

Skyrim is lacking recognition, quest directions, length and sense of achievement for faction quest lines, a journal that feels like more than a to do list, and the usefulness of certain skills, namely speechcraft and lockpicking, not a fault with the skills and their perk trees themselves, but in their application (i.e. a world problem, not a mechanics problem). There are also imho too many essential npcs, and too few spell tomes. These areas are what would turn it from a great action/rpg into a great rpg, regardless of mechanics and character stats.

The only two things I would change in the mechanics are a harder lockpicking game, to make the perks worthwhile, and a 1/2% to 1 and a 1/2% increase in jump distance and running speed for each stamina level up taken, modified by armour worn. Other than that, I am firmly of the opinion that simpler does indeed provide as much enjoyment as overly complicated, and we all came here for enjoyment, not bragging rights, didn't we?

To articulate the complaints a little, it is the direction of the changes that worries long time fans.

Skyrim is an extraordinary game. I have enjoyed it immensly, and have logged several hundred hours on it.

Daggerfall is an amazing game. I enjoyed it immensly ad have hundreds of hours on it and like it years later.

Morrowind.....etc

Oblivion..... etc.

it's all good. BUT-

Each release reduces complexity, combines skills, removes options. Some are brilliant, others make you wonder why it was removed. IMO, in Skyrim, the "mergers" in the skill sets and removal of things like spell making have taken maybe one step too far in that direction. I know myself, and obviously some others here who have much more errr....blunt.... ways of saying things are genuinely worried that further moves in that direction will fundamentally alter the way the games play, or have rather negative effects on the core values of TES games.

People generalize the arguments, use hyperbole and what not to try to stir the muck pot, but at the baseline, the older fans are worried that someone is going to take TES series away for good by turning it into something the previous titles were not. TES games are immersive, exploaration and story telling games with a lot of player choice written into them. The more things that get merged, the more things that get removed, the less player choice comes into play.

To compare it to something else..... lets look at that uncharted 3: drakes deception game. My boy bought it with his birthday cash, I layed on the couch and watched him play it. Quite a story that game tells, a nice world to explore, very detailed in every way. Fun game. There is basically no player choice. As detailed and immersive as it is, you are lead along the whole story. Now, this may be an extreme example, but it is what people are afraid of= TES series moving in this direction because "thats what the current generation of gamers likes". Maybe the next release on TES wont be so limited in skills as they dont exist, or world exploration will be streamlined into level based, but thats the fear, that the more they reduce and make things more efficient or simple that the game will boil down to that eventually.

Remember they tried it once with battlespire. I remember the absolute fanatic anticipation of that titles release among friends and associates. The mouth drool and glazed eyes imagineing daggerfall with the creature models and "3D" imaging of the game. i remember the OMG no free exploration!! It's levels!! when it did release. People cried a little inside, one friend told me when he started playing it, that feeling of let down was so strong when he realized what was up he felt ill. i remember buying it and playing it anyway and likeing it quite a lot for what it was, but it was what it was.I would play it again today, but only do so knowing it is not a "true" TES game, but a TES lore based FPS type. And if Bethesda keeps merging systems and removing stuff we could see an attempt at that again. god I hope not, but who knows? Money is a powerful motivation. if studies show 8 trillion copies would seel for Xbox if they made the next TES a level based game, pretty sure they would do it.


Anyway thats the real basis of most of the arguments. The people that say "just remake game X" are kind of fooling themselves, there is no money to be had in that, at least not enough to do it. It is always better for buisness to make a new title then remake an old one, unless it can be done on the cheap with a gauranteed profit. IMO, a daggerfall remake would not be cheap, it would be an entire re-write of everything on a new engine. Maybe morrowind could be done for a fair cost, but its too close to the new yet, and PEOPLE STILL BUY IT so why would they touch it yet?


My post is starting to look like a rant lol, so to close

ME love Skyrim, way to go Bethesda!!
I fear the next round of mergers and removal, if as drastic as the last, will fundamentally alter TES into something diffrerent and unrecognizeable outside of lore. It may be still a very fun game. battlespire was, but I would still rank "true" TES titles over it so far as overall enjoyment.

The most that can be said, in the Main, is that a Dumb Event like a pernicious troll rearing his head Down, makes reading the forums a bit more tediAss.