My 2nd char was evil, but back then I wasn't heavily into RP like I am now. I like that evil characters can ignore most quests which frankly are a little dull, but what I find a little more difficult to justify is why an evil character would be out exploring dungeons and basically doing the nords a favor by ridding them of nasties.

I would also like to RP evil slightly more complex than the stereotypical sociopath who kills everything that moves. I was thinking of creating a cunning evil character, like lee van cleef in the good the bad and the ugly who secretly used his military rank to further his evil ways. I have yet to do the civil war quest so I don't know if I could do something like that. Obviously he would join the dark brotherhood, but that's not enough for a fun, unique character.

Anyone playing a complex evil character? How do you pull it off?

Not that I would do it, really, I don`t find fun in such things , but to be evil in a complex way requires intelligence and the means to heavily manipulate others so they actually end up doing evil on your behalf.

Not possible to do in Skyrim. Even telling your Follower to murder someone or steal something while you sit back still means the Law comes down on you, because you are the center of the world.

But anyway, no matter how smart you are as evil, they`ll be somebody who`l figure you out sooner or later.

Illsuion school of magic will be your best friend!

A lot of my characters play in this way. Usually, there's some kind of vendetta in their backstory. Or they've been toppled from a position of power in a different province, and are trying to work their way back up here. So I usually do TG and DB, then take on other quests in terms of how well it suits my personal advantage. Clear out forts and dungeons here and there if they're strategic hiding places. Then go about extracting revenge on whichever group the backstory fits.


On a different note, good to see that you can answer a question about RP with yet another bashing of the game, Blade watcher.

Don't do evil myself unless it's necessary for quest completion and I don't RP but it would strike me that to portray a pure evil character you create a suitable set of boundries.
OP you say the character would join the DB, I would suggest he/she would redefine the DB after gaining control, using it to further your own objectives.
Pure evil will have a very strong drive to perpetrate it's particular brand of evil so deciding what is evil for the character and what would be mere distraction is important.
Torment and suffering, power wielding and control or benevolence and betrayal, blending varying amounts will allow you to define your owm brand on evil.

Your problem is that TES will always get in the way and prevent this type of pure role play so be prepared for compromise, I suppose you could view compromise as an evil in your characters eyes.

Asgard, I ran into this same problem with one of my characters. Hard to justify a "bad guy" who helps out the little people who just want to get ahead, legally.

I think someone brought up though, that you do GAIN from clearing those dungeons and doing those minor quests.

I currently play a Khajiit mercenary (bit of everything gamestyle, mostly nightblade) who will take any job, no matter the price. Will also attempt to play the civil war quest, ala TGTB&TU (love that movie) trying to come out on top. But as long as Khajiit wins in the end, then it all worked out. The Lee Van Cleef character is a good inspiration, I suppose some of the manipulations simply have to be left in your mind as you play.

I play evil characters from time to time, one thing to bear in mind on questing is as long as there's personal gain an evil character/person likely won't care so much about saving someone from bandits or a town from some ancient evil or other, as for evil quests do all the deadric anyone would have trouble calling themselves good then

The problem is there are very few repercussions for your actions, and "failing" a quest (i.e: you can't "Join the Stormcloaks" only to sabotage their efforts) just doesn't happen.

As far as "helping the little people" you can do this, then rob them blind or use the few chances the game gives you to extort a reward out of them for your services. Or even kill them (if they aren't essential) after you obtain what it was they wanted (thanks svcker!).

I was a bit disappointed at the lack of "evil" options in the game apart form some DB quests. Good is too wrote and predictable at times. Sometimes it is more fun trying to be evil and get away with it.

As a side note, don't get hung up on the stereotype of evil. You don't have to be a stark raving, blood thirsty, homicidal madman to be considered evil.

To further this, if I were to play pure complex evil in a smart way. I would volunteer myself to people as an advocater of GOOD. I would do good things and gain a lot of popularity. i would even give beggars gold. Eventually I would be promoted to be the Thane. I would go to places like Riften and crush the Thieve`s Guild. I would play the role of the Dovachin too at the same time. I would employ mercenaries and rename them `Arbiters of Grace` who do good for all. I would pay spies directly under my control. Key figures would be directly under control through blackmail and bribery from the cash I have gained, etc.

I would also give free food and whatnot to everyone every month.

Everyone in the popular masses would like me. Anyone heckling me would be subtledly removed by my Arbiters of Grace and other psycophantic followers. Soon people would elect me to be Jarl of some place and perhaps even consider I could be High King. All of which I would refuse.

I would become Head of the Wizard`s Guild and collect a loyal group of wizards, called The Coven, a secret group of necromancers and the like and task them into all the possible means of powerful magic they can gain. I would tell them they can experiment on prisoners and creatures, but it would be done secretly in one of the old cleared bandit dungeons. My direct orders would be to go as far as they could and keep me informed when they have discovered how to gain enough power to cross the very planes from here to the gods.

All the while, I would be making secret pacts with bandits and employ them to attack caravans and take the greater amount of profits. Then I`d use my Arbiters of Grace to kill them off. My biggest job would not be to kill the final Dragon, but as Alduin, whatever his name is, is almost defeated I would agree a deal with him to work for me for his continued existence. I would tell him to stay low and keep quiet until I call for him. I would alos order him to REAWAKEN his Dragons again if he could and keep them in hiding.

My spies would inform me of any nosey do gooders and have them regularly killed off in various ways, mostly `accidental.`


Then the High King would suffer a terminal heart attack (poison) or be otherwise discredited and beheaded. I would reluctantly take over rule but only as the People`s Carer, not the Jarl until a replacement could be found.

I would then collect all the armies together in preparation and go see the Imperial Emperor of Cryodill. I would demand that for the good of all the people that he hands over rule to one of my people in the Arbiters of Grace (someone who`ll be a puppet for me).

When the Emperor predictably says no. I`ll kill him, then order Aldruin and all my troops to take the Imperial city and the rest of Cryodil. I would order Alduin and his Dragons in with a few of my personal mages to secure victory.

I would order them to destroy all resistance and slaughter the relatives of anyone who opposed me and regular burn and destroy anything that displeased while having what I wanted when I wanted.

Then I would use my Wizards Guild and the secret Coven I created to attack the very gods themselves.

And laugh. loudly.

As people have mentioned, it's important to think outside of the common "third-party" perception of evil. Most truly evil people have convinced themselves and--if they're charismatic enough--their followers that they are inherently good.

By way of advice... if people consider "good" to be the pursuit of selfless acts, then evil would simply the be pursuit of selfish acts.

Determine what your character values most (money, property, love, charred skeever tail, respect), and then strive to attain it, no matter the cost.

The mage I'm focusing on now is just beginning his heel turn. As he explores the world and starts to amass power, he's beginning to like that power and crave more. He's starting to feel "above" others, and is getting to the point of not helping others unless he thinks he can benefit from it. The odd occassion where he runs into someone in need of a potion? He refuses. He's beginning to steal valuable items. While he can hold his in a fight with destruction magic, he's starting to let atronachs and followers take the fight to enemies. Just last night he used Delphine, Esbern, and Lydia to defeat all his enemies so he could reforge the Gaulder Amulet. He stayed away from the fray as best he could, healing and letting loose a lightning bolt here and there.

I would usually translate complex evil with ruthless ambition, meaning that those characters will do anything to advance in power, prestige and wealth and very little to risk it. So they don't rob or steal from people, that's just petty and foolish, when you can tax them instead once you get into power.

Many computer rpg's fail to deliver a very good complexity for such evil character's, usually it's just psychotic or rude evil...nothing like Darth Sidious, Voldemort or any of those classic conspiratory masters of evil.

75% of the quests in this game are evil. It shouldn't be too difficult. If you do a nice guy quest like "Take this letter to my daughter", complete the quest then kill everybody involved.

Around 75% of my characters are good characters, but when I do play evil characters like my Warlock or Nightblade they're never the rampaging kill-everyone-in-town types. Normally they will steal or kill from someone that pisses them off in some way, through threatening them, annoying them or something. They don't forget these occasions, they never leave a potential enemy alive.

Most kills won't be in broad daylight but through more subtle means, reverse pickpocket poisons, break in at night and kill, Illusion spells, leading into enemies, killing from afar, etc. They might do typically good quests, but only for an offered reward. Too small a reward or nothing and they might pay them a visit later to make them disappear, a large reward and they might steal or pickpocket some more as a bonus.

Van Cleef's Angel Eyes is a good template (I love how he can look menacing even just sitting down and eating ), lots of good characters from the Leone movies actually. Indio would be cool for a bandit TG character.

Well, what type of evil do you want to play? Here are some options:

1. Your character wants money and couldn't care less about others. He/she raids dungeons for money, steals when guards aren't looking, and kills and robs travelers.

2. Your character enjoys killing (typical sociopath mass-murderer).

3. Your character craves the adulation of others and despises himself for it. He does all the "good" quests and clears out bandit nests to garner public attention, then turns around and betrays his allies (when there are no witnesses) to convince himself that he doesn't really need other people.

4. Your character is a demented zealot. Perhaps you think you are Talos reborn sent to purge Skyrim. You kill only imperial supporters and non-Nords

5. Your character is a thrill-seeker. It's not that he enjoys hurting other or needs the money, but he can't resist the thrill of pickpocketing someone in broad daylight, delving into dangerous dungeons, or taking a contract for blood.

Well, all my characters are considered "evil" by most. But in their point of view, they see everyone else as evil.

For example, my werewolf characters see the Vigilants of Stendarr as the evil hypocrites and the Silver Hand as evil. While my vampires believe evil is just a point of view. That there is no such thing. It's only subjective and that regular people just label them "abominations" because they are at the bottom of the food chain.

This has inspired me. They don’t have to kill to satisfy some wild blood lust, it might simply fit into their skill set. Murder some people, maybe do some stealing, get paid, go have a nice dinner. They have no connection to other people, so no conscience and no remorse. Just self-interest.

You need to have a better explanation than just “complex evil” Being evil for the sake of evil is stupid, there must be a goal and objective. Some will have back stories with vendettas but at the end of the day it makes your character look like a powerful child throwing a temper tantrum.
Think more to real life, are drug cartels evil for the sake of being evil? Or do they simply want wealth and are willing to go to any lengths to get it?

Are dictators evil for the sake of evil, or are they simply doing everything to stay in power. They also see other human beings as inferior so they don’t really see themselves as doing anything bad when they rid the world of them.

"...and some people just like to see the world burn."

Lot of games lack spirituality in that sense these days. They all seem to be about crime amd punishment. With todays censorship, I'd say a game that allows a PC to be truly evil, would not make the light of day unfortunately.

Not sure about your complex evil, but as for a reasoning to be digging around in dungeons. Don't evil people want power? I would be asking, why wouldn't you be digging around for ancient powerful artifacts? Remember the Draguer(sp?) reanimate according to lore. They never really stay dead, they just don't do it in the game because it would be annoying, but even the NPC's talk about how killing bandits is better because they know when to stay dead. So really you wouldn't be doing them much of a favor.

Maybe avoid forts and caves, only dig around in old ancient ruins and look for powerful artifacts. I think that's enough to justify an evil character dungeon diving.

Your rank in an army means nothing in Skyrim unfortunately :/

Most of, if not all of, my characters tend to be what you could define as complex evil in the way that he/she will do just about anything that will gain him/herself more power to use for self-betterment, no matter the cost, no matter the method or concequence. The only time I will not play such a character is when playing a character who is through-and-through good and pure at heart, with a higher purpose.

Say, my Orsimer warrior is not evil in the sense that he goes about killing whomever he wants just for fun (although he occationally does that), and he will strive to complete certain quests that otherwise would be considered "good" - but only if it gains him something in the end. His main goal is to get ever more powerful, to the point that every citizen of Skyrim will tremble at his feet, and every foe he encounters will perish at the "mercy" of his mighty warhammer. Some may consider his deeds evil, some may see he does good deeds, but in the end what matters is what he accomplishes through these acts - wether they actually count as good or evil - and that is power for power's own sake.

He doesn't kill bandits to help the Nords, he kills bandits because he wants to, likes to, and because it gives him a few more notches on his hammer. He doesn't clean out a mine to help the miners, but because there are monsters to kill, and hopefully treasures to loot. He is ambitious, arrogant, selfish and brutal, but stays true to the Orsimer way of life. In his case, it is a matter of ends justifying the means.

Complex, yet so simple...

Playing a specific alignment is nearly impossible in Skyrim, as the dialogue/quest options are so painfully linear.

Learn from your betters. The Daedra. Their ways are cruelly subtle, vague, chaotic and smooth at the same time - and utterly and mercilessly persuasive. While the Daedra are commonly classified as demons by humans, they're not. Still the paths they pave for mortals often lead to darkness, and only six are known to take pleasure in it. Known to take pleasure in it; known is the key word.

It might be beyond the range of your will, but I'd suggest it's very possible to mimic the Daedra's ways with the means provided for us.

Aid the people of a Hold and you shall be awarded the title of Thane; you have their trust.
Followers can be made to do terrible things; pretend they are entirely under your control as they do so.
Poison can be planted in the pockets of innocent men and women; pretend you're spreading an evil plague to rid the town of impurity, or to receive funds from other Holds (which goes directly to your treasury), or attract the attention of blessed good-doers so they become distracted, and you are free to act similarly in other places they can no longer control.

Hell, I had my Nord-Cyrodilic Legionnaire work his way up and become a thane of Elisif simply to be able to tear the Thalmor's influence away from Skyrim - from the very roots and behind the scenes, that is. Why not, with your imagination, make up something similar but ultimately evil?