Like surely most Skyrim/TES/RPG players on this board, I place a lot of importance on my characters and their motives/psychology. While I always play a moral character -a 'good guy' the first time around, things are always more interesting on the second play through when I create a more villainous type. The problem I run into though is that despite my initial intentions of being truly bad, I find it very difficult to actually be heartless and often wind up making more of an anti-hero.

I have no trouble being ruthless - massacring my enemies or killing those who deliberately get in my face, but I can't seem to find it within me to do horrible things to those who've done nothing to me and do not oppose me. I need to understand why my character does whatever he may do; I enjoyed murdering the (beyond cartoonishly evil) orphanage owner Grelod because I felt she deserved it, and I quite liked the idea of
.What I can't do is murder someone simply because I feel like it, as "he's evil" just doesn't cut it with me as motivation.

Now I understand that there aren't really many opportunities in Skyrim to embrace the dark side outside of killing people, so I might have to broaden this question to RPGs generally. The Fallout series (specifically the original two, but New Vegas also from what I hear) as well as the Knights of the Old Republic series are better examples when it comes to morality based choices, but TES has had its moments too such as the option of freeing the khajiit and argonian slaves in Morrowind. I really struggle to set aside my own empathy, especially when it's made personal as it so often is in Fallout and KOTOR - how can I let an innocent civilian with a family be killed simply because it doesn't affect me if they die? When I make those 'evil' decisions, I feel like I'm playing a cartoon villain (like Grelod the Kind), but in reality there are many people out there who are just utterly lacking in empathy and have no problem letting others suffer because they just don't give a damn.

Erratic or psychotic characters I have little problem with, common bullies are easy enough too, all out heartless though? Like "let them die, they are none of my concern" - I just can't seem to do it. Granted, it does make my characters more complex and interesting when I have to make them rationalise their nasty behavior, but more often than not I just can't rationalise it and so I won't do it! The best I've managed so far is Saul Kafka (pictured) suffering from loneliness and depression (his back story makes this plausible) and finding that feeding his bloodlust through assassination, which is a wonderfully amoral line of work, gives him that temporary injection of satisfaction - still, it paints an almost piteous portrait rather than plain old fashioned loathsome. I think another part of the problem is that I want to like my character too much; I put enough of myself in him that I want to root for him, and honestly I don't think I'd enjoy playing as somebody I straight up despised as much as I do my beautiful, yet troubled elf.

Do you force your characters to behave in a way you can understand (though not necessarily relate to), or are you fine with their reasons being a mystery to you? Do you find it difficult to be bad? Do you *enjoy* being bad? Fascinating insight to our own morality, isn't it?

-RiC

well i act in self defence, though there are a few people in this game i would gladly kill, bring back to life, kill and do this over and over again. sadly they are immortal

The closest I can come to playing a character that is "evil" is one that is unrelentingly selfish. So, when a Deadric prince demands a sacrifice to get her artifact that I covet, my character finds an appropriate lamb for the slaughter.

But even then, I can't bring myself to kill unnecessarily. I think it is because named NPC's don't respawn and the world would be a less rich and full place without them. This is something even my evil characters understand.

My evil characters will only kill named NPCs if it is necessary for some particular goal or if the NPC does something that pisses my off. Like in Oblivion, there is a quest where you are trying to expose a corrupt Captain of the Guard in the Imperial City. You are not supposed to confront him directly, but my character was already archmage (an evil archmage) and a member of the thieves guild, so I could not be bothered with all the busy work you were supposed to do with that quest. I went right up to him and accused him of corruption to his face. He slapped a 1,000 bounty on me so I put him down right then and there with a couple of destruction spells. Then I went invisible (so I did not have to kill any of the other guards that happened to be in the area) and went to see the local Doyen to take care of that bounty.

Once my character in Oblivion killed the Chorral weapons/armor merchant because she charged too high prices and seemed to have a snotty attitude. No point in shopping there anyway.

That's about as evil as I get. And even my most evil characters give a few coins to the beggers now and again. Old habit from Oblivion that I cannot shake.

First, I think to play an evil character, you have to have an inner mean streak and a black sense of humor. My main 'bad guy' looks for trouble. Like killing the wandering wedding party. Or, accepting the item from the guy running from the soldier. Then, killing the guy. Then showing the soldier his body. Then killing the soldier. Then placing the item on the dead soldier.

He goes unarmed and hits kids. He snipes old ladies. He does NOTHING redeeming and kills those that suggest it. He is a psychopath. Granted, he had to play along until he got strong enough. Poisoning people in their sleep and such. But eventually he got strong enough to take anyone on. And with the mods that let you kill even essentials... it's go time.

Then I have my crooked character. She's not evil, per se. She just doesn't care what anyone thinks and has a temper. She's fun to play because she can do whatever strikes her fancy at the moment.

I have a bunch of 'grey' characters that would never do anything evil, but make bad choices.

I guess, it's a matter of degrees. When you set out to play an evil character, don't fall into cliched motives like greed or power. Use insanity as your motive. Use the desire to do harm as your motive. Normal people in real life don't think that way, so it feels 'wrong' but their just pixels. That's how really evil people view us... just toys. Just pixels in their universe.

If it makes you anxious or feels rong or not fun, don't do it. You don't miss anything. Just be that slightly evil you and you get just as much gameplay fun out of it. Going further is just for theatrics I think.

I am absolutely horrible at being bad.

So far in skyrim I've had two characters (warrior and mage) both good.

Now I'm playing an "evil" Dunmer Thief and Assassin. Or at least he is supposed to be evil. I'm at level 21 now, and he's mostly been helping people out. He's only don't the first quest for the thieves guild. And he has hardly stolen anything (he just pickpocked one ring off of a Battleborn guy in White Run). He is really pathetic at being evil so far.

Is his name Megamind?

You can be evil without killing someone just because you feel like it.
Such a person would not only be evil, they'd also be without self-control or commonsense.
My "evil" characters don't do evil things on a whim. Griselda always expects a reward. She doesn't care if the deed she does is good or evil so long as shes paid.
Belladonna doesn't care about money, just about knowledge and power. To gain those she'd do all sorts of unpleasant things.

Turija has it right. An 'evil' character would really be just selfish, and others interpret that as evil. Whether it be sacrificing people to Daedra, becoming a Dark Brotherhood assassin, stealing everything not nailed down, or just random killing sprees, in the end it all boils down to being extremely selfish not evil, per se.

Ah, but I do want to step into the shoes of an evil person. [For the record, I don't like the term 'evil' and am just using it in a general sense]. More so than this, I want to live out the story of a once honourable man (elf) who becomes increasingly corrupted and winds up becoming that which he hated. My dark elf Saul Kafka accepted a deal with Daedric Lord Clavicus Vile to overcome his tormenting older sibling - he was a lifelong victim of harsh bullying, physical abuse, and ridicule. He imposes exile upon himself for his own safety after his brutal fire based attack on his brother, and from there ventures further and further from his original self - in no small part due to the fact that he is physically transormed from an ugly duckling into a beautiful grey swan, and a powerful one at that.

He's supposed to be stuck in the victim mentality, seeing all opposition as oppressors when in truth he is slowly becoming the more powerful, the dominant, and the oppresor. The most evil acts I've perpetrated are really vulgar displays of power ( ) to those who challenge him, as well as ruthless vengeance unto those who have wronged him.

I suppose my biggest problem is not so much managing to be bad at times, but managing to not be good. It's okay with Saul, because I like that he has his soft spot (though he'll always tell himself it's purely for his own benefit) - but even if I'd made a less relatable character, I'd still struggle to live and let die.

The little sequence of taking the warrior criminal's weapon, killing him, and so on was hilarious anyhow. I think my trouble is that I can't view death lightly enough. I know I'm limited by my own humble benevolence, but I thought my role playin skills could overcome that. Guess not.

No, I think they can. The few good deeds you do, if motivated by the anger and frustration of the abuse fit very well. You can be lawful evil. You have a code and you stick to it. But your code is viewed by others as evil. I think your concept is cool and you're playing it right. You don't have to be evil incarnate. Just filled with righteous anger that cannot be quenched and a curse you owe to the Daedra makes you do some over the line stuff.

Rubbish. I just started a Breton/Vampire Thief/Assassin and I'm really struggling to find the motivation to steal and kill. I was always a thief in Oblivion as there felt a sense of honour but in Skyrim I just can't get into it.

So far, I play a "bad"/"evil" character very badly. Sennia was suposed to do TG & DB... well She finished the TG and only killed one person, during the quest's, to and from is a different story, but they did attack 1st. So I'm putting doing the DB on hold for another character, when I come up with a good enough backstory to keep me motivated, to kill ppl that may or maynot need killing. Also about halfway through TG I realized that Sennia hadn't killed anyone "on the job", so it became a challenge to NOT kill anyone while "working". It just seem's rather odd to think that anyone would go out of their way not to kill and then become an assassin.

Well I never felt evil doing the TG in Oblivion.

i cannot be "evil" in any RPG (or even a game that gives you a choice between two options) because my characters have to have morals and motivations that i will follow, usually doing what my character is compelled to do would, and does, put me at chaotic neutral instead of good/evil

Not great.

I have 2 main types that I like to play - The first is a more law abiding Good character who is not exactly Lawful Good, probably more Neutral or Chaotic Good, but will refuse to break the law unless it is neccesary for the "greater good" - I usually play this character for the first playthough of a TES game, to do the main quest and "save the world." He's basically a good guy, though I try to play him realistically. Not running errands for just everyone because he's such a nice guy.

The second type is more interesting to me to play and I usually play him for the second run though - a more morally ambiguous type who is always looking out for himself, stealing whatever isn't nailed down and cutting down whoever gets in his way. I still play this one realistically, always thinking "what is my motivation" to make choices and actions. I RP that he is an orphan who never knew his parents or who's parents didn't care about him and was basically crapped on his whole childhood and now is getting his revenge. I can never play him completely evil, though. I can't hurt innocents (like kids - even if you could) and sometimes he even has a soft spot for beggars and will give them money (not just for the perk - I did that in Oblivion too just for RP). He also wont kill people that he doesn't have to.

Like the OP I have to have a realistic motivation behind my character and often find my real life morality gets in the way of being truly "evil". Vengeful or Spiteful I can play, but truly Psychotic, no. If I try to play that kind of character, I always lose interest very quickly because I start to see my character as a worthless piece of crap. Once I stop identifying with my character, I find I can't really continue and I have to start a new game. That happened to me in KoTOR when I tried to play a badass Sith char. I kept thinking, "I can't kill these people for no reason, or just to get the darkside points."

I have never joined the Dark Brotherhood (or the Cammona Tong) in any TES game, just the Thieves guild sometimes. Ironically - the closest I've come to playing a psychotic moment in game was getting invited into the DB, and after talking to Lucien LaChance, I killed him because he annoyed me and I thought he deserved it. He wouldn't die of course, so I had to keep killing him over, and over and over... until I got bored.

I think the most evil thing I've done was using a raise dead spell on Meeko's owner, while Meeko was standing nearby. I didn't do it to be evil though, it was mostly out of curiosity. Mostly.

My most evil moment was when the little smart a** girl in Whiterun kept telling me "I'm not afraid of you even if you are my elder". So I turned into a werewolf in front of her and slaughtered everyone possible in town saving her for last so she could see what her smart mouth had caused. Then I killed her and feasted on her corpse. Scared now brat?

I must confess that I don't really understand your situation. My desire when roleplaying isn't to create a puppet in a show that I've already scripted but, rather, to start with a lump of clay and let their mysterious story play out into whatever shape *their* fate molds. That initial bit of clay, of course, includes a backstory and, as with any backstory, provides certain personality characteristics, motives, etc. But as with anyone, any or all of those features are subject to change as they interact with the world.

In otherwords, for me, starting off with a character whom I'm determined to see remain *evil* (whatever subjective meaning one wants to define that as) or *good* or, for that matter, any specific alignment would mean I was cheating myself (the player) of experiencing a potentially great, unknown story. If nothing else, use the opportunity of your character's evolution to better understand your own unconscious whims and fantasies (which, afterall, is what imagination boils down to). If you start with too rigid of a framework upfront, you're really just robbing yourself of both self-discovery and the fun of a thrilling, new story.

Just my two cents worth ... which is worth exactly as much as anyone else's two cents.

I'm terrible at it and because of that, I've never seen a big portion of Oblivion and I'll never see a big portion of Skyrim. Sometimes I wish I could but it's not fun for me so I'll just have to do what I do and hope they keep adding in more options for taking a noble path in the quests - not saying to remove other options, just add more of the other kind too.

Not very good.

I do manage to play selfish enough to keep the Thieves Guild and Daedric quests going, and I even did the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion (don't remember much of it, though), but after a quick spoilery glance at what's in store for the Skyrim DB, I happily committed murder on Astrid. I actually like that the Skyrim TG really is about breaking the law and doing unpleasant things to often hardworking people, as I find that Robin Hood-y concept of "noble thieves" highly unrealistic. It's just enough that I can do it (and enough TG victims aren't nice people anyway), but sufficient to resemble a criminal organization.

The point of randomly killing normal people eludes me, though. I play a role playing game, not a combat simulation, and for me, I see no reason to reduce Skyrim to the latter.

Just being mean for its own sake - that would need quite a bit of effort, and I simply don't know why I should do that. If I really wanted, I could probably do it, but I don't miss it.

As for character background - I do have quite a bit control ( ) about my character's actions, so I a) don't create a character who would "need" to be evil in the first place, and b ) if given the choice (and it's one of the advantages of a game that you always have a choice), I just don't develop him/her into that evil direction I don't want to go anyway.

So in the end: Being evil is not worth the effort, so I simply skip it.