I've read some of the comments in this forum and if I was experiencing the persistent critical issues others have, I may have given up on Skyrim and Bethesda too. My experience has generally been extremely positive, though, and in the more than 200 hours of playing the RPG on the Xbox 360 I've only had maybe a half dozen or so lock-ups, only a couple of instances where my character got stuck in the geometry and I had to reload to get him/her out, and only one occasion where I had to restart because of a bug that broke the main quest. There's also been quite a few times where my character has either partially or fully fallen through the geometry and then that hilarious instance when a rider on horseback was almost completely bured in the ground, but those were very minor bugs.

The worst problem I experienced, when the main quest was broken because I had cleared out Sky Haven Temple (the Alduin's Wall bug) before the main quest directed me too, was a bummer but I took it as an opportunity to restart the game with a completely new character. Fact is, Skyrim isn't a game so much as an experience that might very well consume years of my life. I've tried playing other games since it came out but none interest me, and the only upcoming games that will likely take me away for any amount of time is the Xbox 360 version of The Witcher 2 and the XBLA version of Minecraft.

I admit I've been fortunate. The game could be freezing on me right and left, I could have run into many more game ending bugs, and I could have corrupted saves. By the same token, though, I am a pretty tolerant person. I played over 200 hours of Fallout 3 and it was far buggier of a game. Fallout New Vegas, which I played on PC and the Xbox 360, was also very buggy. I tolerated the games because they are worth it, and because there are absolutely no other games like them available from any other publisher.

The bottom line is what do you want from a game? Some people want very crafted and polished experiences and some want open worlds. Some have to have their graphics pristine and the frame rate absolutely rock solid at 60 fps. And some want the developer to respond to every forum post and immediately fix every issue, even changing the game to suit their every whim. Me, if I like a game I play it, otherwise I don't. I have complained about games before (Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 both come to mind), but at some point I realize that some developers are worth supporting and some aren't.

Bethesda, for me, is the developer that can do no wrong. In my opinion Skyrim is by far the best game they've ever created, and is the most polished and deepest yet. The company makes games for themselves, not for the masses, and works hard to give us the tools to create our own experiences. Skyrim has allowed me to create an Argonion archer/sneak, a Breton fighter, a Dark Elf that was a master at alchemy, enchantments, and destruction magic, as well as a Khajiit blacksmith who is deadly with a bow and can sneak like there's no tomorrow. No other RPG gives me this kind of flexibility.

And as great as it would be to have mods, Beta patches, etc., I'm playing on a closed system. And the fact of the matter is I could have played the game on my very modest PC, which only cost me $300 to build but could play Skyrim well enough. But I don't want to. I'm willing to not have mods, to wait for patches, and to put up with the other annoyances like visuals that are awesome but not even close to those on a PC for the convenience of playing on my Xbox 360. It's the platform I prefer, and I chose it because it's easier/simpler/less stressful for me.

And while I'm not dismissing the problems others are having, I do think that some people should just accept the game for what it is, move to the PC where they can have what many seem to consider to be preferred status, or just go buy someone else's game. If you don't like Skyrim or Bethesda you could always find another game and another developer.

Amen! 8) I totally agree. My friend has both the PC and Xbox version. Yes the PC looks better... on his Alien Area 51 computer! But I don't have the money for that. I was a PC gamer since the beginning, but since the coming of Halo I've abandoned those versions for the Xbox. Because with the Xbox I can buy the game, put it in the disc drive, and it plays the first time! No memory issues, driver updates, or hardware problems.

Yeah, I've had a few bugs with this game, and really should make a list from my game guide of places not to visit before getting the proper quest. Yet, even on the Xbox, when I go down into a Dwemer ruin, like the Aedrome in Mzult, I just look around in amazement at the sheer wonder of it! I'm sorry, but at the current time, there is nothing that compares with Skyrim!

Funny , if a made a "Why I hate skyrim (and Bethesda)" it would be locked in a minute. But this is fine ? ^ In hardware and software issues ? Only thing in this post worth reading is "If you don't like Skyrim or Bethesda you could always find another game and another developer."

yeah...why is this here? it should be in the general forum

If you feel its not right thats why the report function is here, report it to be moved, in some cases it will or it will get closed because it could be considered a borderline flamebaiting post.

dude, I myself have reported/uploaded pix, complaints etc. about skyrim, I love it its one of my fave games, but we have the "Skyrim Hardware and Software Issues Subforums" for a rason...

Cool, another love letter to Bethesda. Really the wrong place for it.

OP: I have to disagree.... Investing hundreds of hours in a game where there are game-breaking bugs is not a minor thing.

I was a gamer many years ago - in the 70's and 80's, into the 90's playing on pc's. I recall many games with nary a game crushing glitch. Yeah, they were a lot simpler, but you could play them to completion.... Skyrim is a bit open-ended without a real finality, but there are a finite number of real quests to do.

I for one, do not like giving up 350+ hours of my ice, only to have it all wiped out due to critical flaws in game play. To have Bethesda say gee-whiz - sorry, start over with a new character is reprehensible. To have almost 9 weeks of my life wiped out is a had pill to swallow. I will end my character play when I choose to - when I have done all the quests I have elected to do, and am satisfied in the outcome. Then, those nine weeks + are a testament to the game that I am proud of.

Under the terms of Skyrim, you simply lose all that. I sympathized with those having issues when I was not, and after 250+ hours, the horrors started for me. After 350+, the game was so unstable I had no choice but to abandon my well developed character. I rolled a new one, but will not hold out hope, as there are still some bugs that will eventually make the game unplayable still extant in the game.

I am happy you love Skyrim - I did too. Once. It is a great game. But it has lost the luster and shine. Bug free, I could play it a long time. Now, I'm not so sure.

I am not trying to start a flame war, and I only posted this here because when I read all of the negative I feel like there needs to be some positive too. It's one thing to say "I did XX and YY happened when really ZZ should have. Will this be fixed?" but it's totally another when you lambast Bethesda constantly, second guessing them. The dynamics of software development, especially when dealing with console manufacturers with certification processes and closed walled gardens, is much different then just providing a patch.

I remember playing the original Civilization on the Commodore Amiga, back around 1992. I got ready to go to Alpha Centauri and a bug prevented it. I had to wait several months for Microprose to make a patch available on their BBS. I couldn't complete that particular game, so I just restarted and played many others while I waited. It was unfortunate but software has bugs. I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong, and I am not excusing Bethesda for releasing Skyrim with game ending bugs. But for me personally, I don't play their games one time through for 300+ hours. I tend to play multiple times, with different characters, sometimes playing to the end and othertimes just experiencing certain aspects of the game and then starting over again.

Everyone has their preferences. I, for one, don' play many games. Skyrim was a special case for me.

I have grown very attached to my one- and only - character. I still had things I wanted to complete, and cannot. If you re- roll new characters, fine Ok by me. With the amount of time you can invest in Skyrim, it's tragic to get sooooo far into the game and get slammed to the point you have no choice but to restart.

I can live with minor side-quest bugs that don't impact "real" progress in the game. As I said - I had many good hours, but I want to end on my terms.

I totally agree with you that you should be able to end the game on your own terms. Bugs that break the main quest or the faction quests should be addressed by Bethesda as they are found.

Man, I used to think that a lot of the Skyrim complaints were a bunch of bellyaching, but after looking at the Mass Effect 3 "controversy" the Skyrim complaints seem a lot less frivolous!

Seriously, though, some people have not actually been able to play the game because it doesn't work at all- crashes in the opening scene, corrupted 400+ hour saves, things like that. That's legit.

The odd sidequest complaint that some people characterize as "game breaking," understandable because when you're really into a game and it's not cooperating it can be disheartening.

My thing is, number one, it's always bad to take anything too seriously. Number two, it doesn't really help fix anything when people blow things out of proportion. Number three, going off on Bethesda is petty. You bought their game and you're upset because your enjoyment of it is impeded. What do you get out of indicting them in some venemous accusation, other than the satisfaction of being nasty?

Like you, OP, I'm one of those who has not experienced major problems with my copy of Skyrim. Have had a few minor ones, and in other Beth games have had games become unplayable (FOVN, I know, it was Obsidian not Beth, but nonetheless..). I don't see the point in raking Beth over the coals. I'm more interested in giving them the pertinent information so they can fix the problem. Sometimes my problem doesn't get fixed. My FONV is stuck in the Big Mt. I just went back to my last save before going there and went on to the Lonesome Road expansion. Maybe I'll try it again at some point, maybe not. I don't feel owed anything by Bethesda. I don't feel like they are negligent or malicious, selling me junk. It's a video game, not a parachute or major surgery. It's not that big a deal. Yes, I have fun when everything works, but it's not going to destroy my life if there's a problem. But that's just how I am.

I'm with you, OP. I understand your inclination to bring some positivity to the forums. I also feel like this is the appropriate subforum for your topic: you're talking about the game's performance.

Everybody here just has to keep in mind that all of our positions are legitimate to each of us. It's totally fair for each of us to take issue with each other's statement if we can explain why we feel it right to do so. What we can't do is try to discredit or dismiss each others' statements, or even each others' rights to make them, because we just think the other person is silly for saying whatever they said. If you have such a low reaction to someone else's statements it should not be worth your time to comment.

Lots of people here are here because of a problem in the game, so the majority of people posting feel differently than you and I. I agree that it's worth mentioning that we're having good experiences, as long as we don't use that as an excuse to discredit others. What's even better is to try to help other people here with any problems you might be able to solve that way you can still participate without making yourself a contrarian.

What matters is getting the game to be as good an experience as possible. We can help document the problems for Beth's reference, as well as help each other fix or work around what we can ourselves. We want everyone to enjoy Skyrim as much as we are.

I think there is merit in praising Skyrim, as I said - I loved it. Until I found out all those hours I put into it with the reasonable expectation of "completing" the game were washed away by bad programming.

Yes - it is only a game, and yes, we shouldn't look at it very seriously - i don't think the majority do. We may enjoy the role-playing aspect to a higher degree than some, but that is our choice.

What I find perfectly acceptable, is the right to protest, and yes complain, that a game I invested so much time in, anticipating a rightful conclusion, is bugged to the point I cannot complete it. I don't care about the drop in the bucket money I dropped - hell - i've got games I haven't played past the intro.

Those who find it hard to understand those of us who have suffered game breaking issues - well - I have a hard time understanding why you don't see our point.

It is all about the time and effort people invest in playing, only to find themselves deprived of what the game is offering. How valuable is your time? When all you have done is wiped out against your wishes. It is one thing to retire a game after you have satisfied your intentions in what you want from the game, be it 20 or 400 hours. That is time you accept used as intended. When you are forced to abandon that, the time and effort, and accomplishments are discarded without your acceptance of completion. feels pretty bad.

I agree with the OP.
I play on the 360 and never got any bug, and played for around 600 hours with multiple characters.

I'm sorry for those with bugs but like the OP, I've had pretty much no problems with the game and with 100s of hours and a 1/2 dozen characters no quest breaking bugs,. In fact almost no bugs at all. So while I sympathize with those less fortunate, for me its one of the best games I;ve ever played and themost stable and bug free also. I guess it depends ob your system.

As a parallel example, Steam works like a dream on my new PC but was the program from hell on my son's old PC. Pretty much al my pratical hatred for stram ( as opposed to intellectual ) came from dealing with it on that PC. Now that he has my old PC and I have a new one Steam works great but on his old PC two professional IT guys could not get it to function correctly.

I am not agreeing with you here. Your 300 odd hours are not 'lost' as if you were in solitary confinement at a prison. You had those hours of enjoyment and play time or a distraction or an exploration or excitement or all of those. I'm taking your word for it that you can't complete something which is unfortunate, but hardly meaning you lost anything here because you did get those hours of game play.

If the object of the game was to just finish then you are correct, but it's not JUST that. It's supposed to be to PLAY and EXPERIENCE the game. Now if Beth refunded the game price to all those who didn't finish and a bug did prevent that - well then you have a major and legit gripe but for you to say you lost 300 or so hours of your life due to a bug is just plain silly hysteria.

I love it, too, because I often become totally immersed in the game. I crouch over my keyboard when I'm sneaking. I breathe deeply when I'm in the mountains with a brilliant sunset. I look warily around me when I'm walking down an unknown path.
The only games that have given me this being-in-the-game feeling are Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind.

Most people will tell you they think Skyrim is a good game. Even a lot of "hardcoers" who look for 90's RPG features and find they aren't in would still say, despite their disappointments, it's an enjoyable game.

I still say Skyrim is Bethesda's best game. I played Morrowind but never finished it. I played the hell out of Oblivion, destroying multiple Xbox 360 drives in the process! And then Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas! I love all those games. And while I initially missed repairing items in Skyrim I keep finding new things and new depths. I just got into smithing in the last 50 hours of gaming and am loving it! It's a huge, complex world, and while it's not totally seamless and it definitely has many, many bugs, I couldn't imagine how Bethesda could possibly make it bug free. I have worked as a software QA person on business apps/servers/clients for over twenty years and even the simplest programs rarely ship without issues. That's not an excuse. It's just the reality of software development.

And I don't think Bethesda should be excused for game breaking bugs, but it doesn't look like they like to get involved in the forums so we as customers log our complaints and wait to see if/when the issues are fixed. I'm confident the most serious will be, but it will take time. Bethesda has to weigh bug fixes, new features, DLC, mod support, etc., as they work on Skyrim, and I'd imagine they have a long list of issues and they sort through them and try to fit them into the various patches. That's just my assumption but it makes sense.

Agree, most of Skyrim's issues are cosmetic, especially when you compare it to the rest of the industry. A dumbed down version of Skyrim is better then 99% of the other games out there that other Developers release. Skyrim does have problems but against other games, those aren't problems that impact the game overall. I'd rather have Skyrim then what happened with Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.

maybe employing most capable devs and QA testers like me instead of keep asking about references or previous experiences will help these big companies.
what can I do if I don't have previous experiences as a QA tester? if they keep asking for them I'll never be able to "experience"

I guess my view of satisfaction is higher than that of others.

A game like Skyrim is an experience, a journey of character development (such as there is in Skyrim - not a lot really).

If someone cannot complete what is offered in a game, they would appear to have a valid point.

I loved my time in Slyrim, there were weekends where I logged long hours playing. The experience was tremendous. But it is like taking the one-time, journey of a lifetime, involving a good chunk of time, only to arrive and find you cannot complete the last leg of the journey. Yeah, you could go back and start over, but there will not be the same initial wonder and discovery. In Skyrim's case there is also that Sword of Damocles.... "will I face the same thing again". I' m done " defending" my stance here... To each his own.

I love these threads, OP. There are so many systems, so much world, so many quests, NPCs, creatures, etc. The game is Massive with a capital M and for that reason, and the reason that I just love the open world/sandbox Worlds they create that I can patiently get through this period of Skyrim adjustments and just keep playing as I can. I've been stopped by glitches while playing on PC and my PS3 version worked just fine as I played it to Level 18 (will get back to that game later). When I run into a problem, I report it to them in the Bugs forum so it'll help everyone. Many others are doing the same thing. There is also a group that just likes to rage at things online and wishes they had written the game, but they didn't. They should go do that though.

Skyrim is an amazing world and the creators poured themselves into it and followed their vision. I'm so happy that it is as it is. I can play other games like Oblivion or Fallout to enjoy other things that Skyrim may not have. I don't want the same game twice. Ok, could go on forever but anyway...I love these Awesome with a capital A open world Bethesda games and Skyrim is as exciting as I want it to be. Thanks Bethesda!