If you go upstairs inside the New Gnisis Corner club you'll see Imperial armor and weapon's on the shelf's. those racist [censored]s at the front gate of Windhelm were right

So... the owner of New Gnisis has an Imperial armor. Fine. How does it prove that all Dunmer are spies?

But if you're interested in not-so-positive image of the Dunmer, you should read Dunmer of Skyrim:
http://imperial-library.info/content/dunmer-skyrim

Ambarys berates Suvaris, too, for working with the Nords. He's a nasty piece of work. Also, he's one of only two elves who complain of racism in the city.

haha i never thought of this befor...

I'm not saying they all are. but Ambarys is.

Woah, woah... hold on!

The Nords have accepted the Dunmer refugees and in turn the Dunmers want to kill them and/or drive them out of their homeland? Say what?
I always held a grudge against Ulfric for treating the minority (Dunmers, Argonians and Khajits) like dirt but this puts the dark elves into a new light.

I actually thought that book glorified the dunmer. It shows how they are standing up to the oppression that is the stormcloaks, who in turn think they are being oppressed. Just goes to show who's really being oppressed.

Accepted at arms length. You can see that some of the people of Windhelm clearly resent them being there. The racial tension is clearly having a negative effect on the Dunmer's perception of the Nords, and of course is going to breed animosity.

It's also important to note that this author doesn't speak for all Dunmer. The Dunmer seem to be split down the middle on the Nords, with some hating them and others being okay with them.

That's good if it's true then ..!

Ah, I saw the in-game proof of that poor treatment but that link really made me think twice. Even if the Nords hate them they at least didn't get kicked back to Morrowind which would probably equal a death sentence with how things are there at this time. But yeah, you're right.

Both party is at fault. The Dunmers for not trying to be more thankful to the Nords by helping them or at least not shutting in completely, making a mini-Morrowind within the Gray Quarters and the Nords for not seeing past the "dark elves are evil, grrr" prejudice and instead of making the Dunmers become interestered in becoming proper Skyrim citizens who fight for the land, they allinate them from themselves.

Now as I think about it... Why is this game full of dunderheads?

There are quite a lot of Dunmer that are productive members of society in Windhelm. They work in all spheres of the city, and the only three that complain about their treatment are the woman you see getting hassled in the beginning of entering the city and the two who operate the New Gnisis Cornerclub. They are being helpful, they just don't want to get involved in a war effort which has a battlecry that clearly excludes them "Skyrim for the Nords." They're helping on the homefront, which is just as important, if not more important, as helping on the battlefield.

The book is a middle finger to the Nords. A well-deserved middle finger at that. Why not?

Understand that this isn't Earth racism. This isn't some KKK dude screaming about the supremacy of white race or Malcolm X calling to eradicate the white devils. This is a lot more hardcoe.

Men and mer may have descended from common roots, but they are now wholly separate and no love is lost between the two. Especially in Skyrim, the earliest contested area of all. Remember, everyone is an alien in Tamriel. Every race came from somewhere else except for the beastfolk, and every race can technically lay equal claim to any part of the continent. The history of Tamriel consists of one race systematically slaughtering another, and then reversing the roles.

Given a chance, the Dunmer would wipe out the Nords and everyone else. Given a chance, the Nords would do the same to the Dunmer and everyone else. This isn't Earth circa 21st Century. This is a world perma-stuck in the Middle Ages. Life is cheap, and if you don't look like me, there ain't enough room for both of us in Tamriel.

Yeah, he might be. But the tread title says "Dunmer are" and the guards were accusing Suvaris Athenor for being a spy, while she most probably isn't. So even if there is a Dunmer spy - or several - in Windhelm, it still doesn't justify the guards' attitude. I'm pretty sure there are just as many Nords who sympathize with the Empire in Windhelm as there are Dunmer.

The author of the book is very radical and believes Dunmer are a superior race. He calls Nords apes and cowards and compares them to cows - doesn't seem like a very likeable fellow to me... You're right, he glorifies the Dunmer, but the impression he makes on me, the reader, is extremely negative. People like him are the reason Nords fear and hate the Dunmer. That's what I meant by my first post.

See how easy it is to influence someone? The book was written by one Dunmer. One. He presented his own point of view, nobody else's; he doesn't speak for all the elves. However, you are right in saying it puts Dunmer in a new light - most of the time the game leads us to believe Windhelm citizens are racist and other races just want to live peacefully. Nords are the bad guys, Dunmer/Khajiit/Argonians are the good ones. Obviously, this is just one side of the coin.

Some of those who migrated to Skyrim retained the need for supremacy; they were always a little isolationist, but just look at the Telvanni - they thought themselves better not only than other races, but also other Dunmeri Great Houses. The House might have fallen, but its ideals remain. Not every Dunmer is happy living on borrowed land, at Nords' mercy.

Then again, not every Dunmer dislikes the Nords. Some are fighting and dying for Skyrim. Some are doing their best to break the stereotypes Nords have about dark elves.

Athal Sarys on one side, Belyn Hlaalu on the other.

It's interesting how people discuss the lore of a game the same way they discuss religion or politics.

I think the Dunmer should be more appreciative since the Nords have given them the island of Solstheim over to the Dunmer. Although the Nordic treatment of the Argonians and Khajiit is seriously bad it's not as bad as the Dunmer themselves who enslaved the Argonians and Khajiit for countless years.

The Dunmer of Skyrim book just shows to me how ungrateful some of the Dunmer are.

There are Dunmer that've served in the Imperial Legion along with Nords, yet no one claims that other Nords are imperial spies. Not every Child of the Sky is for Ulfric.

Well, it is religion and politics, albeit of a fictional world.

Exactly.

I guess cause it's so intriguing.
And those random Dunmer going to Windhelm to join up cause they think Ulfric has the right of it.

Just a heads up, those aren't guards. Those are two drunk beggars lashing out.

Kind of depressing. That's why I always liked the Imperials in every installment of TES. They have their own dark history, disgusting figures, not to mention the wide-spread corruption as well but hey, at least one race attempted and attempts to not just unify everyone but try to make them as equal as possible instead of wiping others off the face of Tamriel because "sorry dude, this hill just ain't big enough for two cocks".

Permanent Middle Age or no, I honestly believe that there is a place under the sun for everyone in Tamriel. Sure, there would always be bickering, uneasy feelings, smaller wars as that is the nature of men / mer / beast alike BUT not complete extermination of one or several races. Of course, that would mean that all countries should stop each other's mindless slaughtering for like a second and stop to think about how stupid and pointless is what they are doing.

Then make some sort of agreeable peace and then everyone can go back to their homeland if they hate other races so much while the open minded folk stay and through hard work become rightful citizens of the land they choose to migrate to. The end.

Yeah, you're right. I forgot. They were Rolff and Agrenor, right?

But I don't think it really matters. When they're sober, they have the exact same opinion of the Dunmer (at least Rolff has, I'm not sure about Agrenor). I believe other Windhelm citizens share their suspicions about Imperial spies, they just don't openly harass elves like these two did.

Yes they do. i posted a story about it earlier today in the fan fiction section.

Well i don't remember if the dunmer ever been good folks. Also they're a powerful race and i wouldn't suprised if plot in the book happen to be true or even succeed.