One thing has bothered me since the Skyrim came out. I can't still understand it. Why they made Riften to be so full of thievery, corruption, Black-Briars and other dirty things if you can't raise your hand against them? The whole city cries your hero to drive out the Black-Briar family and end the days of thieves guild but you can't do it. Mjoll the Lioness is there like a person who could help you with this mission but no there's no mission, no quest at all. I like the city and I like the hold but I hate that I can't clean this dirty city to be worthy for the independent Skyrim. There is so much potential possibilities for quests of city cleaning that I can only ask why they didn't allow player to clean it? WHY?

That's my biggest complaint about the game as well. I'd be perfectly fine with Riften IF I had the chance to wipe out the thieves and the Blackbriars.

I know it annoyed me too. I was hoping we could expose the corrupt Black Briar and destroy the thieves guild. It would've been like a certain quest.

The town would be practically empty if you eliminated all the corrupt people who live there. It's a veritable hive of scum and villiany.

I wanted my good character to wipe them out too. It's funny but some aspects of Bethesda's games are starting to feel more like an MMORPG. Like the quests in WoW where you accomplish some great feat but the NPC's never move, nothing in the game world really changes, and everything ends up exactly like it started because someone else is going to come along right behind you and do the exact same quest and them someone behind them to infinity. But here, where it's single player only, it makes no sense that you can't go in and do as you please. Who is it hurting if I wipe out the whole Thieve's Guild? I don't understand all the essential NPC's in Skyrim anyway.

Just because you have a thing about "cleaning up cities"...
I think it's great, there's a grotty, mucky city full of corruption, we're fine with that.

You can't wipe them out and neither can you actually expand them if you wish.

It's very limiting.

Luckily they did make it possible to eliminate the Dark Brotherhood or help them. So why not in this case? Time restraints? Developer forgetfulness? Uncaring towards the idea?

I totally agree. It's downright moronic.

Riftons a stinking dump. If I could burn it down, I would.
I would love to clean it up, by force. Annihalate the thieves guild and Maven and every Black-Brier except Ingun.

Stupidity aside, that place is not right. It's like half the stuffs missing.
Mjoll has the most blatant quest markers possible. But no quest. She asks you how you are going with destroying the TG after a point. Everything about her screams QUEST!
Other people have quest markers, the whole place screams clean up rifton quest.
I think they removed all the quests to clean up rifton.
Whoever did was a complete and utter moron and cretin.
They don't even allow you to kill the scumbags without a quest! It's full of completely unwanted essential tags!
You can't massacre everyone you hate, you can't destroy them in quests. WTH were they thinking!

And the sheer aggressivness of the TG quests.
They try to force them on you at every freaking turn!
You walk through a door, you get accosted by that nasty thug Maul if you breath near him.
You've got to hug the opposite wall to avoid him.
That damn oirish moron Brynjolf comes straight at you and forces a freaking quest entry, when you want nothing to do with him and the TG.
They're freaking obbsessed with forcing you to join the freaking TG all through the game!

Riftons a freaking mess.

Well killing all dirty people and cleaning the city are two different things. At least I wish after Stormcloak quest line to make some politically cleaning by driving out Black-Briars who's back is covered by their friends in Imperial City and I would like to make Mjoll to be a new Jarl instead of the corrupted one we have in there.

Probably because wiping out the TG could sorta mess with the MQ

Are you mad, brethren?

Just today, I've been thinking the exact same thing as most of you. I really want to bring order back to Riften. It's offensive to my character that the temple of Mara is in such a snake-pit of a town, and I really REALLY want to do something about it. This is a severe flaw in the game, and should be addressed in DLC.

Excellent OP.

Wish you could actually expand the Brotherhood.

The TG have absolutely nothing to do with the MQ. They are not the only people down there in the ratway, not by a long shot.
And it's the bar owner Rexel The Man who helps you find Esburn without going near the scumbags.

You could destroy every single stinking TG scumbag and it'd affect absolutely nothing to do with the MQ.

Riften(Rifton) Is historically a city of crime. It's been this way since in the late Second Era. (Real Barenzia Vol.2)

Getting rid of Maven would sink Riften's economy, considering the Black-Briar meadery. Besides, Riften's already under Stormcloak control, so unless Ulfric's going to get rid of Law-Giver, which would be a stupid decision considering she's one of his supporters and he'd be unlikely to hold Riften if not for her, there's no way to get rid of the current Jarl.

After the war I think you should be able to persuade/intimidate Law-Giver to cut off her connections with Black-Briar. If you fail you fight her and replace her with a new Jarl. After that you drive Black-Briars out. I can't see Riften economy getting hurt if you give the meadery to man who is in charge on it anyway.

Yes but think of all the plethora of bring me quests in Riften. All collect fire salts or gems or ice wraith teeth. Aren't they more satisfying than doing something like you suggested?

No?

My character isn't "good" so my reason for liberating riften is just to see Maven's head on a plate. I hate that [censored].

For me, if a quest of this caliber were to exist, it should be in conjunction with the TG questline (may be asking a bit too much of this game but w/e), where you're likeliness of "converting" Riften so to speak, would be influenced by your stature in the TG. Say, for example, you finish the the questline and become master of the guild, then you should be much more likely to keep the economy afloat when you drive out the Black-Briars.

IMO, the TG has more power and influence that black-briars as they are the BB's tools most of the time anyway. So if we rebel, then what do the black-briars have? Oh I happen to be in the DB, and the Thalmor ain't got anything on me. I'll kill those damn elves in the blink of an eye.

So I guess I still fail to see what's stopping me

The people in the Ratway Warrens are paying the TG for protection. That's one of the services the Guild provides. Besides, let's say you do kill all the members of the TG. Vekel the Man loses his customers, so he can no longer keep the Ragged Flagon and has to move. This eliminates anyone who could supply Esbern and the other hideaways with food.


Look at it this way: even if you get rid of Law-Giver, there's still all the bought guards in Riften. People don't like it when you suddenly stick your hand in their pockets, so I doubt they'll be fine with you trying to drive out Maven.

You're looking at a situation much like the Forsworn Conspiracy. Let's say you kill Law-Giver. The town's people are suddenly against you because they don't know of her corruption, and the guards are against you because you're trying to take away their money.

Think about it. You literally have no solid proof that Law-Giver is corrupt. You have dirt on her steward, but nothing on her. So you just committed an act of regicide in the eyes of the people.