The rights are there to protect Bethesda... Which is how they will be used.

Bethesda, as far as I know, have not done anything shady in the past. They are good on that.

However...

Ideas, are often used. (Skyrim has many ideas similar to mods for Oblivion. They did not just COPY/PASTE or "Take" code/mods and add them to Skyrim. EG, ambient sounds, plants that change when you harvest them, better water, etc...)

Protection...
If someone uploads something that is clearly illegal, Beth has the right to remove it. (By the wording.)
If someone uploads something that is a direct conflict to DLC, with actual copyrights, Beth can remove it.
In order to "distribute it through steam", Beth needs rights to "Use it without limits". (Eg, you GRANT them rights.)
They do not claim "Sole ownership", they are asking that you agree to "Shared ownership". Without restrictions. EG, if they decide to drop steam and post it online through another source later. They don't want everyone saying... "No, I didn't give you permission to do that, take it down."
If your MOD starts killing peoples games, making Beth look bad, or look like the bad-image... They can/will remove it from the list. (When people attempt to use the editor for things beyond the scope of intention, or just program poorly a bunch of dead-loops, etc...)
If a MOD directly insults Bethesda, in description or in the actual mod itself... or steam... or some other unacceptable issue... You can not say, "Hey, I didn't give you permission to remove that, that was freedom of speech!"

If it bothers you... The CK is not the only tool needed to make mods.

The CK is for script and object placement/manipulation. (Art, sounds and object assets not made with the CK are yours. EG, it does not do art, sounds or object creation, so most of your creations are still always yours.)

Make the MOD without the CK... I am sure someone will make a script-tool that functions the same. Any program script you make on another free program can be converted to Skyrim code, I am sure, without the CK. Get some copyright on the files/data... Let someone else upload it... Then you are not bound by the EULA.

Then Bethesda has no rights to the content, since the uploader didn't have rights to extend to them. At the most, they can only remove that MOD, not use it. (Not like you are going to be expected to sue your friend, or a 10-year-old for uploading the data that they didn't have rights to upload. As long as you don't tell them to upload it... You only suggest it... lol.)

Here we go again... Any files you create with the intent of adding them to the game, Beth has rights to (not ownership of). They can use it as they see fit once it is distributed as a mod simply because of the laws regarding derivative works (you made the mod for the game, the mod is useless without the game, and it is based on their existing ip). You can do whatever you like with the files you make (meshes and textures), even sell them. But the specific files packaged as a mod for the game and distributed falls under a derivative work.

If anyone disagrees with this, that's fine. I really don't care because I'm not afraid Bethesda is going to steal my work.

You never had any Intelectual property within Skyrim or Any other Bethesda Product, and you wouldnt have been legally able to claim copyright for anything concerning Skyrim either.
Quite simply, their terms and agreements would have legally prevented you from having any ownership, regardless of wording or read me files that people often attach to their mods.

In the most bland of examples as possible,
It would be like me buying 5 Macbook Pro's - Arranging them in a fancy shape, Selotaping them together, and then trying to copyright it as art.

(You cant take content that Bethesda created, and gave us, and then repackage it in another shape, and expect to copyright it as your own product)

If it is genuinely models, graphics, and stuff that you created 100% original etc, it still becomes Bethesda property, once you use it in Skyrim.
I dont like it either, but I can see Bethesda's reasoning for it.
Imagine another game company tried to make money, by hiring a bunch of modders to make DLC.

Bethesda would lose the market on Skyrim.

I think it comes down to this. Bethesda will not blatantly steal your work as that would piss off most modders and a very wide majority of their fanbase and I doubt they would want to do that. What is more likely is that they would offer you reimbursemant of some form for their actions to avoid pissing people off. If you refuse to let them use them well...they would probably respect you but if they really want whatever a modder makes they will take it.

Meh, i'm sure it's every modders dream to have Bethesda using your work...

- So, did you ever have your work used in a commercial game?

- Well yeah, there's this game called "Skyrim", not sure if you've heard of it..


I'd be pretty damn proud (and cocky) to be able to say that. hehe

Just wondering; if I add 50 new voice files, but only use the CK to call them into the game, am I giving Bethesda royalty free rights to use my copyrighted voice work? Or is this only pertaining to things made with the CK, for example, scritps and user-created dungeons and stuff (that use existing Skyrim assets to create)?

Please don't answer unless you know for a fact, thanks.

That is a normal about the CK, they create the tool so they determine the rule about it. I doubt that it is including the 3rd part tools created by other guys. Or it will be a mess of copyright realy unconfortable.
But they use the right to control the product created with the CK tool.

So, being a bad guy, i would wonder that using only 3rd part tool will avoid that part of the deal. i just wonder, please comment.

Anyway, if you can some suffisant quality content without the CK, you are a damn strong guy, it is realy difficult.

This is the case in any kind of editor/mod making kit pretty much in video game history.

I believe Paladin181 already answered this.

1. This is common....Bethesda can go and take your mod.....but they aren't going to.

2. If you make a custom mesh, with a custom texture of your own idea, Bethesda can take it along with your mod....but that does not mean they own it exclusively. You can still use that mesh in other products of your own.....and if they tried to argue that...well you would have legal grounds to refuse. (since the mesh was not made with their program, only imported into it).


The only thing you need to remember. If it uses something from the game or it made with the CK, it's Bethesda's and you cannot sell it.

As I understand it, if the team that made Nehrim were to re-make it without any Bethesda resources or tools, they (Nehrim team) would own it....even though a version was created in the Oblivion CS first.

Bethesda only hold sway over things that involve thier resources/tools.....this does mean they can take your mod with it's custom resources....but lets face it they aren't going to.

well, your not allowed to profit off of another person's intellectual property/copyright to begin with (without expressed consent) so that line is just a reiteration of current copyright laws

only content made within the CK is considered Bethesda's property, anything made outside of it like meshes and textures would remain yours as the CK only makes a reference to the file, which could have been anything at the time your working in the CK

Strangely, the CK EULA conflicts with the Skyrim game EULA. The latter varies by juristiction, especially with regard to modder IP and licensing.

For example, the rights asserted by Bethesda in the UK game EULA are not as comprehensive as the US license (presumably reflecting Bethesda's understanding of UK law). I wonder whether this is an oversight in the CK EULA?

Also, while the CK EULA may be similar to earlier TES games, it strikes me as extraordinarily assertive, compared with other games.

Years ago, no one would bother about this. Sadly, today, the games industry no longer behaves like our friend, so we do sit up and take notice.

In terms of professional risk management, this sits in the most difficult category - high impact, low risk. Who can say, with an accountant's precision, what is a reasonable cost to prevent an event which, though unlikely, would be devastating? Who even knows for sure whether this behaviour is legal in every juristiction, in the absence of case law? No doubt this is why there is such a broad spectrum of opinion on the subject.

On balance, I'm inclined to accept the risk.

However, if the next J K Rowling is reading this, think twice before giving Bethesda unlimited license to use your Harry Potter character.

Bethesda already used mods from Oblivion to improve the game, but only the idea, and since great minds think alike it doesn't mean that the idea didn't exist in some programmer's mind already.
I'm talking about Harvesting mod that made the plants after they have been harvested, however in that case all textures and meshes are new since everything in Skyrim has been modified to look better.

standard stuff. if you're too eager to sell your mod, maybe you should build it with custom editors that were released before the CK

It is a big issue for Bethesda if that line is not in place. Because if they should release a DLC which contains elements similar to some mods, the mod creator can attempt to sue Bethesda.

In fact, DLC would not be possible under that condition because somewhere out in the world, there must be a mod containing Spell X or Ability Y which Bethesda intent to include.

While the modder is unlikely to win in any event, Bethesda does not need to spent that kind of energy and money contesting it.

THIS. If you live in the US and understand Intellectual Property law, you are NOT giving up your own rights. You are simply licensing Bethesda to use the contents of your mod as they see fit. The most likely application of this I see is them mass-importing Nexus mods into their Steam interface.

For example, say you write a completely original work of fiction, completely unrelated to Skyrim, it’s characters or themes, and choose to place it in-game as a mod.

You could later choose to submit that work (your fiction, not the mod) to a separate entity and would maintain all rights to that work and any additions you might have made since licensing it to Bethesda in mod-format.

In other words, licensed ownership is NOT mutually exclusive. Beth can do anything with YOUR ORIGINAL PORTION of the mod content, but SO CAN YOU. They don’t own it, they are just free to use whatever you choose to put in their mod format and publish online.

So basically yes, it is like saying they are free to use anything you put in a mod ROYALTY FREE. This is questionably legal when it gets into original audio recordings that are not specifically related to their IP. They may not in fact have legal authority to legitimize such a contract, and it would have to be litigated on a case-by-case basis.

If Bethesda actually chose to republish someone's music or voice files without additional permission that is, which I very seriously doubt they would be foolish enough to attempt under such a generic EULA. This is just meant as a catch all for where it would apply.

Also, if say you include one chapter of your book in a mod, but have the entire book available separately online, Bethesda inherits NO rights to the remaining chapters of your book that were not included in the mod (again assuming it in no way references Bethesda’s IP).

ALSO, it is within your rights to put a donation link on your website REQUESTING (but NOT requiring) visitors to donate for YOUR TIME if THEY SEE FIT.


"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". - (Henry VI - Act IV, Scene II).

"Small things make base men proud". - (Henry VI - Act IV, Scene I).

"Big things make small men cocky." - Phinix

As what has been repeated over and over again - this isn't any different than it has been since Morrowind that I know of personally. And I'd like to know why all of a sudden its why can't I make money off my mod? Seems thats been the same restriction since way back in time as well.

Whatever happened to the pure personal satisfaction that maybe 100, 200, 500, 1,000 or maybe even 10,000 people thought your mod was so good they couldn't resist installing it in their game too. Or heart attack time that Bethseda thought it was so terrific they wanted to include some of your work or ideas as part of the series, be it this release or the next Elder Scrolls.

I'm just thankful that Bethseda has allowed me to use their tools to enhance my game to my own personal liking. And maybe even share it with others down the road when I feel its worthy.

I'm doing this for fun, and happy to stay that way.

Precisely for that reason, I'm concerned to avoid unnecessary hassle.

I posted this elsewhere, but it is also relivant here in relation to meshes, textures, the Nexus and the EULA:


Please note uploading to Steam Workshop is a completely different matter, and I'm not sure, but I think you really do give up your rights if you upload anything there.

I personally think that they put it in there, just to cover their backs from their rivals.

Imagine a game company hired modders to make DLC for Bethesda's own product.

You would have game companies like Blizzard and Bioware, making money using tools created by Bethesda, for a Bethesda Game.


I think the Clause is in the T&C more to stop the competition from profiting from the CK, than to justify the theft of Creative content of the users.

Perhaps people grew up? Realized how the real world worked? “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.”

If you are modding as a hobby that is one thing. House mods and such which use only Bethesda’s property fall into this category. However, if you are “featuring” elements of your own UNIQUE and ORIGINAL intellectual property in a mod, NO contract is valid that would pretend to sever you from entitlement and rights to that property, which is yours.

Misrepresentation and vicarious assumption, is baseless in any court of law.

It is quite simple. In today’s high-tech society, most people cannot afford to protect themselves let alone effect the future. The wealth is in the hands of fewer, in a time of greater abundance. This is base human evolutionary failure, the fatal flaw, stupid chest-pounding alpha vanity and piggish greed.

The wealthy can afford to use technologies against you that you cannot afford to defend yourself against even if you work.

By blindly throwing away your rights to your own intellectual property, which no such generic contract can deprive you of, you would be throwing away your livelihood, your creative control, and material that could be used to help afford that absent defense and thus survive. This is why you are protected. Because an individual cannot be expected to be a legal professional to be entitled to their fundamental human rights, and this is recognized by the courts.

It is become about life and death, that is why. Because times change, that is why. Because our nations have ABANDONED US to poverty and defenselessness after TRILLIONS invested in NO DEFENSE in the context of BIOTECHNOLOGY, that is why.

Taxation without representation!

Because the only thing I have with which to defend myself is my MIND and MY intellectual property.

Because it is my INALIENABLE HUMAN RIGHT (and responsibility) to maintain the sovereignty of that property. Anything that is of MIND and BODY, is not subject to ANY contract, and all such contracts are NULL and VOID because they would necessarily require violation of the highest human law to pursue.

No contract is valid that would deprive another of their right to their own biological property, their BODILLY INTEGRITY, and this includes memory, active thought process, and DNA. Whatever you are able to get away with is irrelevant. Intellectual property theft is the biggest crime in modern times, because of the means we have, biotechnology, to steal it from you.

But if you choose to use such means you are GUILTY, of crimes against humanity, and ALL nations what value PEACE and LIBERTY are in a defacto state of WAR with those who do, and justified to pursue ANY and ALL military means against offenders.

To a certain extend it is true, we may LICENSE elements of our intellectual property to others, but ONLY those forms which are already expressed in a FIXED INAMIMATE MEDIUM. In other words, contracts for licensing of intellectual property are ONLY valid for material like writing, physical artwork, music, of otherwise things that have been recorded and written down BY THE AUTHOR.

NO contract or agreement may extend this license to BIOLOGICAL PROPERTY without SEPARATE arrangement of the requirements established by both parties. Much like taxes, it requires a specific form, which, among other things, specifically must account for 1) all parties being aware of EXACTLY what means will be used to extract intellectual property, as well as notification in ANY instance access by only these means is made, and 2) the establishment of an “off switch” that any party may choose to activate at any time during a “session” to terminate ALL connections.

Without this established, ANY form of access to personal biological property information (including DNA) without the individual’s knowledge or consent, even in the context of unqualifying generic contract, is a violation of their human rights and will label you a rapist and a terrorist and subject you to ALL that which the Patriot Act allows in the investigation of such cases.

Right now, the powers that be are allowing corporations (and other countries) to hang themselves. They are setting up a surveillance network that monitors the extend to which these private corporate swine are willing to violate bodily integrity in the name of intellectual property claims, and when they have their list of names, they WILL wage WAR against them, with the full force of the modern American MILITARY.

Mark my words.

You sound like you're throwing around some pseudo nazi propaganda, lol.

Oh yay, Godwin's law

Anyway, I think this thread served it's purpose now.