I sometimes find joy in pondering the intricacies of TES races. Of course, we know that Nords are equipped to deal with the cold but, for example: Khajiit have fur... but their native territory is hot desert... but M'aiq claims that they change when they enter Skyrim... so should they bundle up warm? Or should they need ventilation to keep from overheating?

And, of course, for now, we pretty much have to live with "one size fits all" clothing and armor designs. Head gear gets individual race variations, but nords and dunmer both have to wear their blacksmith clothes the same way... (And those poor dunmer... so cold for them... on top of everything else...)

Anyways, Argonians bother me... to function at all in skyrim, they have to be warm blooded. And, to me, this suggests either a mamilian or an avian biology. And, ok, the models do suggest that they are really mammals. But the in-game dialog tells me they are egg layers...

And we do have egg laying mammals (echidna and platypuses), but they are not "lizard-like"... so I am thinking feathered argonians would be a fun mod. And, of course this leaves open a lot of questions (for example: would they have a uropygial gland or not, and, either way, would anyone be up for designing the associated idle animations?)

But the first step, if this were actually implemented, would be concept art: few people would want to play "feathered argonians" if they did not look good. And this probably means picking through concept art for good ideas.

So... is anyone up for trying their hand at "feathered argonian" concept art?

Argonians already have a few feathers. I see argonians more like dinosaurs, that is both lizard like and bird like, and they lay eggs.

I'm pretty sure Argonians are warm-blooded, and also can either lay eggs or give birth to live young (not quite like a mammal but through ovoviviparity) but there is nothing that says Argonians have to be one type of Earth creature specifically. Mammals and birds are warm blooded. Amphibians breath under water. Reptiles... look like reptiles. Humans alone have permanently engorged briasts. Argonians don't fit any of these, they are a unique life form. It's plausible for them to be endothermic (presumably using other methods of cooling than sweating, as they have scales/scutes) without also being mammals or birds, or having feathers. They do sometimes have feathers anyway, though from what we've seen, not over their entire body.

And reptiles and birds don't even have briasts...


I read somewhere that argonians appearance can vary drasticlly from almost reptilian to almost human, depending on their hist sap consumption as a juvenile. I get the impression their "human-ness" is a transformation brought on by the sap, natively they are basically reptilian which makes classification slightly easier, while we havn't seen any canonical nvde female argonians to confirm or revoke it (Do the males have nipbles?), there's nothing to say their "briasts" are actually functional organs and not just "bumps" on the chest which'd sort out the awkward "reptiles with mammaries" paradox and further push them under the reptile catagory

Yeah, if they are real briasts and have scales, that's a bit odd, because briasts and nipbles evolved from sweat glands in the first place, and sweat glands are no good if you're covered in scales, but I suppose it's TES, the explanations can be a little different to ours, and involve magic if necessary.

I believe they are sacs that contain excess hist sap.

Daggerfall confirms that Argonians have no nipbles.

And besides, briasts on a reptile are downright mild compared to the nightmarish insanity that is http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Morphology.

AFAIK, Argonians are warm-blooded. But there's a lot of conflicting lore about whether they lay eggs in the way birds or reptiles do. Actually, Argonians have strange lore all around really . I recall that they sometimes will change gender midway through life, that must be kind of awkward .

Absolutely. I don't know how they're going to deal with that for a TES: Elsweyr, but they've dug themselves quite a pit with that part of Khajiit lore.

I am not too concerned with how they lay their eggs. That's... a topic probably best left for new Argonian families to deal with?

But it's pretty clear, in Skyrim, anyways, that they do lay eggs. Though I suppose it is also possible that Talen-Jei was lying to me?

The Morrowind race selection description text refers to the male and female "life phases," which strongly implies this, yes... though I haven't seen any other source for it, and it could mean that there's a neuter phase that both males and females emerge from or transition to (more likely the former, assuming it's a pre-sap form).


...which is frankly a 50-50 chance in these games.

Just remember: it's all true, even the lies. Especially the lies.

Well, I remember talking to an argonian in Oblivion that mentioned something where he said "I have been since I was hatched"
And IIRC there's one in skyrim in the DB who also mentions being hatched.

I've heard that one of the lore masters of TES claims that Argonians are warm-blooded, yet Morrowind in-game lore seems to imply that Argonians are cold-blooded (Argonians in the game refer to other races as "warm-bloods" if I recall correctly). My guess is that either Argonians can be warm-blooded or cold-blooded depending on subspecies, climate, and Hist sap consumption, or it was supposed to be an in-game misconception that even Argonians believed, or perhaps a little of both.

Also, it seems to be made pretty clear that Argonians are reptilian (despite what one fictional author claims), and Argonians do not sweat, which means they do not have sweat glands, so I have no idea how the females can have nipbles. Of course, this is a fantasy game, so i guess it doesn't really need to make sense in terms of real life. But it can be pretty confusing at times if you try to overthink it all.

Whaaat? Nobody said it yet? I'll say it:

Feathered Argonians are already in game! They are known as... Chiken! ..chaser...

i was reading a wiki site

"Argonians' genders are sometimes referred to as life-phases, implying they may be able to change gender. However, little is known about this phenomenon, and Argonian hatchlings may be of either gender.Argonian appearance ranges from reptilian to almost human; this is decided by the amount of Hist sap they ingest as hatchlings, which ceremonially takes place on their Naming Day. Ancient cave paintings depict figures which appear to be more tree-like than Argonian."

"tribe Sarpa: Described as being "winged", though it's unclear if this is meant literally or not. They live in the interior of Argonia."

interesting stuff

Nothing that taking a very large hammer to a tower can't fix (Alright so they probably needed more than just a large hammer and the tower to break the dragon but you get my meaning ;p)

I want to make this quote my official signature, but it's a little too raunchy for my persona. Funny stuff.

If you ask me, argonians aren't mammals, avains, or reptiles. They're simply a new class that doesn't fit into the pitiful rules of our "Earth Biology".