I had a thought. I'm probably wrong, but I'll say it anyway.

If it's object placement that causes a crash occasionally, depending on where it is placed, then perhaps checking the object movement units. Is it possible that somehow an object is beinf placed at an X, Y, or Z coordinate that has a fractional value value rather than a whole number? It may be that the game looks for whole number values and hits an error if it encounters a number with a decimal value greater than .0.

Like I said, I'm probably wrong.

You mean placing objects off-grid, if I understood you right. I can't imagine that this could be the reason - especially as the CK wiki mentions that it is possible to do so. Of course you never know.

Also there is some other thing I found out.

I tried to link Vlindrel Halls Back Door (Vlindrel Hall is the cell I edited and I added a second door, that was supposed to transport the player onto a terrace within Markarth Origin in Markarth World) to a door I placed in Tamriel, right outside Markarths Main Gate - and it worked.

So the bug seemingly has more to do with Markarth World and not so much with the interior cell.

Update:

Then I created another door in Tamriel/ Markarth Exterior and linked it to the Terrace Door in Markarth Origin/ Markarth World (the one that was originally supposed to transport the player back to Vlindrel Hall interior) and it worked.

So it seems you can:

Enter an edited cell from any place (Tamriel and other Worldspaces)
Exit an edited cell to Tamriel, but not to other worldpaces
Enter edited (and as it sees also non-edited) parts of other worldspaces from Tamriel but not from edited cells

So by taking a detour via Tamriel everything works fine - just thats not a solution.

It may sound silly, but it seems like there might be some hidden setting, that tells the game something like "This interior lies within that worldspace" to override a default setting, that "links" all interiors to Tamriel. And this setting seems to have gotten lost during the editing process somehow.

But finding the real reason for that will be like searching the needle in the haystack without assistance of the developers. They MUST have run into that issue as well.

I've had this exact same problem with my mod, and it is exremely frustrating. I suppose it's a "feature" but the irritation it causes makes me label it as a serious bug. The problem I am having is this: I can enter my new cell from Solitude with no problems. I can exit this cell to other interior cells and Tamriel with no problem. But when I try to exit back to Soltude - BOOM! Crash to desktop. Oblivion had never such problems and I'm flabbergasted how Beth was able to create the game with such a bug-prone environment. Jesus!

ok, I found another 'thing' that caused my "exit from the house crash" I made an oversized smelter in my house along with a giant hod filled with loose ore (at least 30-40 loose pieces). As soon as I added the hod and ore, crash. Remove the ore, no more crash. This is getting extremely time consuming and frustrating to have to save and test the mod for each and every object I insert for fear of the crash. Why is there no debugging mode or crash logs??

I've also started a new save game specifically for testing purposes

1. Be absolutely 100% positive that your Clean Save is actually clean. If not, start a new game. That is the one and only guaranteed way (currently) to rule out a Dirty Save issue (yes, it is a royal pain in the you know where). If you have tried everything else, go through the pain and see whether a New Game still experiences the crash.

2, There is logging ... See the wiki for what to enable in your ini file. But there is not necessarily Crash Logging (depends what is bugging and whether the error is logged before the crash).

What exactly do you mean by "clean". Or in other words - what is does s "dirty" savegame have to contain to be considered "dirty".

That was, sort of, my point. It is very difficult to rule out the possiblility that your save is dirty. That's why I'm basically saying, if you are using saves to test and are getting an unexplained error and - having tried everything - you are no further forward; it is worth trying from a new game.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1348833-old-versions-of-mods-conflicting-with-newer-ones/page__fromsearch__1

Have a look at that topic. The problem is that changing things in your mod, then going back to a save before you made the changes is very possibly a no go. Many things are saved within your saved game.

If you alter a vanilla script, or a vanilla object with scripts attached, or alter one of the scripts you have made (and saved in a game) ... then the save is potentially dirty.

When beth was developing its quests, it put "quickstarts" in many of the longer ones. Then the devs/testers would not have to go through the Helgen Scenes - for example - every time they wanted to use a new game to test their stuff (look at MQ101).

Not sure if I understood everything right (in the thred you linked).

The first question which pops up is: What means to "mod" an object with a script attached in this context. Deleting it, of course, replacing its form (i.e. chair to table), of course, editing the script attached, of course. But also moving it to another place within in the cell, also changing its enable parents?

Lets say we create a player home. During the process most probaboly it will benesessary to move objects with scripts attached (owsa's) and afterwards going there ingame to check. How would they do this, provided the following statement is true?


IIn fact it can't be entirely true. When I modded Vlindrel Hall I did this many times - and it worked, properly displaying the changes. No crashes.
The only crash that appears is when trying to exit to Markarth (tried two different pairs of doors: The vanilla pair where the inside door has been moved around in the cell, and a new pair that has never been moved after linking the teleport). Both doors teleport properly when I place the putside Markarth world.

IF the crash would happen every time - no matter of the outside cell linked, I would agree to the above statement. But as it ONLY happens when exiting to Markarth I suspect it MUST have a relation to Markarth.

As far as I can see there are very few relations to Markarth World:

1. The doors - here to Markarth world
2. The xmarkers for decoration - here to Understone Keep interior.

Just did a test: Placed one of the doors in Understone Keep and linked - works, no crash.

Seems I can link EVERYWHERE except Markarth World.

Where does this fit into the picture described in the thread you linked....??

Did some more testing with other worldspaces. Obviously its not possible to exit the edited cell to another worldspace except Tamriel!

So it CAN'T really be a general issue. It must be tied to how the game handles worldspaces - which seems to be bugged in CK anyway, at least it seems so to me after quickreading a few other threads dealing with that.

Honestly - I believe its a thing that happend to the CK while adjusting the original one to the version released to the community.

I REALLY miss a decent support from Bethesda for the CK where we could ask questions like that. I feel quite left alone...

Instead its more like a tombola: Ask your question and PERHAPS it will make it to a state to be answered. Very sad.

I am using a 100% clean save, just started a new Save Game, haven't touched anything in the house (just a run through to make sure things work, and I still get a crash now. I was just quitting out inside the cel without zoning out so there would be no Autosave upon extiing (mistake). After I had added a whole slew of new items to the cel, I tried to zone out and CRASH. I figured out what was causing this crash: too many interactive bookcases. I deleted them one by one until I could zone out with no crashing. Apparently all I can have is 72 'book slots' in my cel before it starts to crash upon exit.

I am almost ready to toss in the towel though since I can't even come close to creating the house that I want to due to some of these limitations/bugs

I'm not saying it does. Neither am I saying it doesn't. I'm saying that the practice of only using saved games to test is dangerous, because doing so has implications that are difficult to pin down.

There's a way to test if your problem is a dirty save ... try it with a new game. If it also crashes, then that isn't the issue. If it doesn't, then most likely it is.

Markarth World might be bugged - I haven't used it in any of my modding ... But I haven't seen any other reports that it is bugged, and quite a few people will have modded using that area, by now.

Some bits of the CK are bugged, Beth admits that. Markarth World might be one of them, or it might not.

All I'm saying is that, if you only test using saved games ... and you aren't 100% certain that the save is clean ... then you haven't ruled out something that could be the cause

What the wiki says: http://www.creationkit.com/Save_File_Notes_%28Papyrus%29

Hahaha - yes, I understand what you are saying. That would be the scientific approach.
But I don't think the devs started new games for testing evey change they made - so I am sure there is another way... just they won't tell, at least until now.

In fact I grew so tired of Skyrim while trying to mod that I even have no big desire to finish my current playthrough - much less to start a new game.


What you CAN do, although its more like a crotch than anything else, is to add an entrance cell between the city space and the interior cell you modded. If have already sunk as deep as doing so. Then there are no more linitations as it seems - except the ones for framerate drops. But most probably one will not reach them with a simple player house.

I have a library of shelves with 386 books alltogether and it works.

But be aware that you probaly will not be able to use the mod with an existing savegame where you have aready entered the house in its unmodded state.

But I really understamd your feelings - its much more complicated and limited modding Skyrim that it was with FO3 - I myself for sure will definately not start another mod. Too much hassle after all. Probably best finishing the current playthrough, if at all, and then deinstall......

Do you mean have an entryway/room that is in a completely different cel? So basically it would go: My House --> Entryway in a different cel altogether --> Skyrim?

Actually, I think that they often did. The Main (starting) Quest has a series of QuickStarts (which you can enable in MQ101), that saved them having to Escape From Helgen!!!1! every single time they wanted to test.

Just that fact makes me think that they often started new games, to test Quests/Functionality that was not related to Main-Quest

I don't think it is more limited (in most ways). I think it's new and (somewhat different). And that's always a pain for coders/modders. The more experienced you were with an older system, the more painful it often is to start using a new one.

I'd encourage you to stick with it. Yes there are bugs - some of them are show-stoppers for many of the mods in development - but most have been acknowledged and will (hopefully) get fixed.

But, I think I'll leave this alone, now. Just say best of luck to those still trying to get done what they wanted to.

seeing as this topic is still a mystery i thought i would let you know my last, and probably final, attempt to get around this.

as the only prossible thing left i could try, i rebuilt the mod (for a 5th time), this time leaving as much alone as i could and adding things in very small stages. I pushed it to about 117k in size before the CTD began, but was quite happy with that. i had to leave a few messy corners and blank walls, and use far less displays that i wanted to, but it was cozy and certainly in a ready to release state. i even took some screens and wrote up a FAQ.

however, in the final testing stages, i discovered that though the house was fine for any character to start with (and thanks to emma, the wife could move in), if you added any items in game the CTD would begin again. this included putting things in containers or mounting weapons/armour. therefore, mod = screwed.

whats more frustrating is that a few other mods have popped up using the same building and they work just fine, though there is far less going on inside the cell. and these mods are not very clean either, if you poke around in their esp's, and as mine is totally 100% OCD clean this doesn't seem to be the problematic factor either.

i am at a loss, and honestly, not really playing skyrim atm. i'm less willing to start the next project i had in mind, which is of course much more grand, until i figure out what keeps happening. How long has the CK been out now? and i've only made one mod over and over. not an auspicious start.

I've created an entry way in a separate cel and that seems to work....for now