Decisions, Decisions...

Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:39 am

How many decisions did you make when you explored the last dungeon you were in?

I still find Skyrim's dungeons to be exceedingly linear. Given how some of them are supposed to represent old buildings and even entire cities, I'm surprised at the overall lack of "crossroads" to be found. Branching tunnels are usually extremely short and blocked up by a cave-in or other such barrier. Puzzles are in-line, simply used to open the door in front of you. At no point do you have to go back, go somewhere else, or find anything.

The key to a locked door is usually in the room before the locked door, and the answers to the puzzles are usually somewhere in the room with the puzzle. If there is more than one door in a room, you usually can't open them both, and if you do they lead to the same place.

So I'm curious, is this on purpose? Bethesda can create this huge complex world, long winding quest arcs and one of the most immense and complicated bodies of lore for any game or story anywhere... but they don't make dungeons that are non-linear?

Maybe I'm only seeing the bad. I know there are some exceptions, one dark, mystifying, enormous cavern in particular stands out of course. But really, even the dwarven ruins are nearly straight lines that just spiral about as you either ascend or descend into the ruin. No real branching, no backtracking, no thing that requires you to make any choice.

And that's what this thread is really about, choices. Decisions. Sometimes I want to have to decide which way to go. Sometimes I want to have to stumble around for a minute, trying to figure out what to do next. That doesn't seem to happen in the Skyrim dungeons. I can't make the wrong decision. If I came in through one tunnel, then the way forward is simply the other tunnel. Nothing more to it than that.

I would like to see more than this. Anyone else?
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Dawn Farrell
 
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Post » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:50 pm

if they make it too hard, nobody will buy it. Welcome to the instant gratification gamer generation.
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SUck MYdIck
 
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Post » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:40 pm

I understand not wanting to make things so challenging that people get frustrated and confused. However, I do think there's a lot of room to work with that is somewhere between "too challenging" and "straight through here please."
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Sweets Sweets
 
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Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 am

I would have liked to see dungeons be more complicated. I think the free will to explore only applies to the surface. As soon as you go into a dungeon - it's linear. It's nearly always one route with that exception you mentioned. The puzzles are bit all the same, the first one I came across was great, but did get tedious after a while. There is one other puzzle where it took me a bit to figure out that doesn't use stones though.

This sounds a bit lame, but the only thing I could think of.

If my quest in real life was to get a coffee and I was given the quest at home, I'd:
1) have to get to work (which is like walking across Skyrim)
2) get to the work building (approaching a house/building in Skyrim)
3) I can get in via multiple entries (bit like Skyrim, but Skyrim does something else - see below)
4) I can then go to the kettle/coffee machine multiple ways once inside (two actually) (Skyrim isn't really like this)

With 3 - the alternative entries/exists aren't usually presented until the end.
With 4 - usually there is one way to get somewhere. There are exceptions, but not usually with dungeons.

I don't think it has to be utterly complex where you have to solve a maze to get somewhere, but I do agree that most of the time you are only presented with one road to get to the destination once inside a building.

Maybe if there were an underground Skyrim which had the same amount of exploring as the above ground Skyrim that would fix that. But that's really two games in one then. Probably be copying The Time Machine novel a little bit though.
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sally coker
 
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Post » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:38 pm

While it would make the layout more interesting, and please forgive me if I seem rude, but I don't really see how going left, then coming back and going right, is any more of a decision than just going the only way forward you can. Unless one path is blocked after you choose, but with respawning dungeons, you could just go the other way later. Not that it would make much difference with for the most part random loot.
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Amelia Pritchard
 
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Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:02 am

It got dumbed down. :laugh:
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Michelle Chau
 
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Post » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:35 pm

I like all the dungeons i've been in, and already so many decisions to make and routes to take outside of them anyways. The thing I love most about dungeons are the bits of story you find, through journals and what-not. I just wish the enemy AI was better. I'd like some smarter battles to spice up mah dungeons!
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tegan fiamengo
 
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Post » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:14 am

It doesn't bother me too much, I agree with Zen it doesn't seem to be decision making as much as just back tracking. I enjoy dungeons and look forward to any story arcs tied to them. This is the case whether I have 3 hallways or 1.
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Nany Smith
 
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Post » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:33 pm

You want hard, confusing dungeons? Go play Dark Souls. I prefer having a game that doesn't make me want to punch a hole in my drywall.

While I'm all for more depth, some really complex dungeons, dare I say Labyrinths, tend to become very frustrating and time-consuming, and don't really add all that much depth.
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Crystal Birch
 
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Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:52 am

if they make it hard, nobody will buy it.

That right there must be Bethesda's ideology and other publishers as well..
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suzan
 
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Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:59 am

Blackreach. Enough said.
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Tanika O'Connell
 
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Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:49 am

To be honest, complex paths and obstacle and puzzle driven sequences in caves/dungeons etc. have never been deep in any TES game. So, I couldnt cares less because I never had the expectation of it to have it. It goes without saying, more content would make those interiors more challenging and exciting, but I cannot say I am disappointed with what Skyrim offers.
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Stephanie Valentine
 
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Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:54 am

Blackreach. Enough said.

This is, in fact, the exception I was talking about in my OP. It is but one example. I do wish there were more.
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kennedy
 
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Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:22 am

I find the dungeons very linear and boring. If it was a deliberate design decision it was a stupid one.
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Yama Pi
 
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Post » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:04 pm

To be honest, complex paths and obstacle and puzzle driven sequences in caves/dungeons etc. have never been deep in any TES game. So, I couldnt cares less because I never had the expectation of it to have it. It goes without saying, more content would make those interiors more challenging and exciting, but I cannot say I am disappointed with what Skyrim offers.

The puzzles may never have been deep, but the dungeons in Daggerfall are just nasty in the complexity of their layouts. You can get lost in some of them for hours if you don't know what you're doing. It's a glorious thing. :D

Most of the dungeons in Skyrim do feel too linear. A few of them let you take different paths or skip entire sections, but that seems to be an exception. What they have instead are more variety in ways to kill enemies and lots of pretty decoration.
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Danny Blight
 
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