Are the initial skill bonus points a disadvantage?

I noticed the other day that my imperial archer had 2 perks by the time his archer skill reached 25 and my woodelf who starts out with 25 skill in archery didn't get his first perk from that skill until it reached 29.

No, they are not a disadvantage. Since they start higher they will unlock new perks faster and start with a higher base damage, lower basecost or generally be more efficient. That you had less perks at a higher skill level is irrelevant, based on character-level more than skill-level.

I guess it is 2 side of the coin.

If you have higher skill bonus with your "main" skill, you first couple level will be easier especially higher combat skill. But since you will actually use the skill, so they will be level up quite fast. While your "unused" skill will remain lower level until you mix out all your "main" skill. On the other hand, if you have bonus on your "unused" skill and actually level up your "main" skill without bonus, you will reach max level a little slower but when you max them, your "unused" skill will be at higher level.

Don't forget your level depends on your skill level, so the more skill level up, the higher level you get, so if your main skill start without a bonus, when you max them out, your level should be a little higher than those with bonus in "main" skill.

They are pretty irrelevant except making you stronger the first levels.
Yes you reach skill level 25 and 50 a bit faster however the effect is small.

Well it comes down to basically 2 less perks for that skill, yeah sure you can level up some other skill to make of the perk short fall. In the end an imperial with 100 archery will have 2 more perks then a woodelf with 100 archery, same thing goes for a nord with their 2 handed skill vs a race that has a 15 skill. Poor Redguard when you compare them to a Breton and you level 1 hand, block, and archery to 100 the Breton will have 3-4 more perks from leveling combat skills since all of there skills start out at 15. So from what I'm seeing is the race with the lower skills will make a better higher level character for those particular skills.

so you plan on only leveling by using archery?

I don't make level 81 characters and farm unnecessary skills anymore, I try to keep my characters in their role i.e a thief or a warrior so my characters usually top about level 55-65. If you are going to play a character in a particular role its better to pick a race that has no skill bonus, an imperial makes a better soft cap thief (perk wise) then a woodelf or a khajiit if you are leveling thief skills. The Imperials will end up with 4-5 more perks for leveling thief skills to 100 then a woodelf or a khajiit.

@Sokjal this applies to any race that has an initial skill bonus, what good are skill points if you are not getting the perk that usually accompany the skill level increase?

Play a character based on what you like about the race, forget the skills. My opinion anyway..

This makes no sense. You get perk points for increasing the character's level, not for increasing skill levels. So a level 2 imperial archer has one perk and archery maybe at lvl 20, while a level 2 bosmer archer has one perk and archery at lvl 29.

But if you only level skills that have a bonus, your max level will be lower than when you level 6 skills that have no bonus.

How does it not make sense? you gain levels by increasing skills. Take a woodelf for example they start out with a 25 archery skill this means they can increase their skill 75 times an imperial starts out with and archery skill of 15 which means they can increase their skill 85 times. The imperial by being able to increase their skill by 10 more times means they will end up with 1-2 more perks from leveling up their archery skill to 100.

But it's your whole character leveling that gets you perks, not just one skill. So as stated above, unless the ONLY skill you are going to level is archery, then this theory is flawed. That same woodelf can level SPEECH up , and get those extra perks.

No its the initial bonus skills system that is flawed not the theory. These initial bonus skills do not make the character better, they force you to level something else up to make up for the short fall of perks. Why should I have to level some unrelated skill so my character can be on par with a character that has no initial race bonuses. If you take an imperial and level up mostly thief skills you will be up 3-5 perks compared to a woodelf or a khajiit who get bonus in sneak, pickpocket, lockpicking, archery, and light armor. Again this mainly effects characters who stay in their role and an imperial can level up their speech as well and still be ahead in perks. All I'm saying is the initial skills is a shame and doesn't make the race better it just limits the amount of perks you can gain from leveling up that skill.

It all depends on how you want to play.
Yes, skill bonuses are nice at low levels but by the time you hit mid to high levels they mean nothing.
The only thing that matters at mid to higher levels are your racial bonuses.
Unfortunately only a few races have bonuses and powers that are worth anything through out the game
Bretons are a race with some of the better racial bonuses.

You're simply looking for stuff to complain about. You are fine with the character you have but are comparing yourself to some abstract saying "he's got more sprinkles on his icecream, while mine is less cold!". This is a non-issue. You still kill monsters, you still find treasures, you still complete the same quests. The fact that you start higher in a skill doesn't change how much skill you can obtain.

Well I understand him. I will try to break it down for you.

Lets say he is going to use 8 skillsets - to RP a thief. All other skillsets will be ignored and not leveled because he will not say - swing a two hander for some levelups.
I do this myself with skills like block and two hand (leveling up based on those skills is a hollow level)

If he started as a strong "thief skill" race - like a khajit, he would have about "35-40" less skill increases to make before he caps than say a breton would.
To max 100 in his 8 skillsets he would need - lets say 720 skill increases for a breton, and 670 for a khajit (just numbers for the example.)

As a result, that breton would reach a higher level than that khajit. These numbers aren't accurate as I don't have the race menu in front of me, but the point should be clear. Some people will dip into other levels and take skills that don't mesh with their style for levelups, and that is fine, but many don't do that. Skilling up in skills your "character" wouldn't do is grinding to an RP'er.

edit: phone double post

But then a RP'er wouldnt be that concerned about maximizing perks now would he?

It isnt my argument, im just providing an explaination.

OTOH an rper might still be concerned with perks to an extent, as they help define a build and its abilities.

Yes, *that* makes sense. But that's not what you wrote in your initial post.

But it should be noted that the overall effect is not that huge. Leveling a skill from 15 to 20 brings as much XP as leveling the skill from 89 to 90; 15 to 25 is about as much as 98 to 100. In total, if you only level your race's 6 favorite skills, you'll end up with level 45, with 73% progress towards level up; if you only level 6 non-bonus skills, you'll get level 46, with 26% progress. So in total, you lose half a level. Yes, this system is seriously broken.

Hmm, had expected larger difference than that actually, but oh well.

I choose the race that fits my character idea/look.The bonuses dont have a huge impact especially later in the game.