Many people wonder why anyone would sink their limited perk points into trees like lockpicking/pickpocket/speech, which all have results that can be achieved through other means. For example, a functional "thief" or assassin character needs at least sneak/light armor/ and a weapon skill to be successful in most areas of the game. Perks spent elsewhere will need to be limited, roleplaying be damned.

But my take on this isn't that these trees are "pointless" (they certainly cater to certain roleplaying sensibilities) but that the real problem is tethering your perk gains to your overall level. It seems to me a superior system would be to tie perk gains to individual skills/ or have perks that primarily function outside the %effectiveness format(think fallout). Or just a lot more perk points. Or abandon the system. (not every solution needs to be elegant)

The leveling/perk system in Skyrim, though for the most part functional, does not seem to fully grasp the beauty of the previous installments, where a neglected skill could be built up with a little effort and reach its full potential. What we have now works, but is essentially the traditional class/skill tree format where you are allowed a very limited amount of skills to develop effectively, which forces what would normally be at least minor skills in games like morrowind(such as security/lockpicking) to wither up and die in the presence far more important combat skills.

Whereas other games encouraged use of a broad skill set with varying emphasize on combat/primary and utility/minor skills Skyrim makes you choose between the two. And it's pretty obvious which skills are "nice to have" and which are "crucial for not being eaten". The existence of these miscellaneous trees is evidence that the game itself isn't completely streamlined, but that certain design choices encourage a streamlined approach.

How do you think leveling/perks/trees should be handled in the next game?

I dislike the perk system as well for the same reasons.

First of all, perks should only be specializations in skills, not simple effectiveness increases of the entire skill. Those perks should then only be earned/unlocked through executing actions related to the specialization of the perk, i.e. if you often do a running power attack you'll eventually earn the sprint power attack perk.

Agreed, the whole point of removing the classes was so we could finally do whatever we wanted. Perks make it so if I am high level and want to be effective at archery, I won't have enough perks to make it effective. That's bull.

I wished they would have made the perk trees in a similar way they made Werewolf/Vampire Lord Perk systems, unlocking perks as you use the skill. but of course you have to limit it in a way so that you can't master all the trees, thats where i think they should add the class system again

I'd rather have the leveling be slower. It's way too fast, but also way too tedious. Even trying to avoid grinding doesn't make it any better. The level cap shouldn't be so defined, either. I'm not saying, "Baah. I just want attributes!" I'm saying this MMO style of leveling makes no sense for the game. It is MMO in how you have a set cap and a soft cap. I'd love for the next game to have very minor and slow leveling stats that only consist of about three extra ones. Endurance, speed(agility could be merged with this), and dexterity. Dexterity would be the attribute for crafting and just simply making handling weapons feel different for every weapon.

Daggers would only be fast if you had good enough dexterity. Claymores might become faster if you have both a good amount of endurance and a slightly larger amount of dexterity. How would each weapon be different? Daggers would be an everyone type of weapon that would be a bit sluggish and the fast speed of them would actually make them the most accurate melee weapon at first, because we all know how to swing a smaller blade. It isn't as stressful towards the body.

Using a shortsword(if they come back) would be slower, but they'd be hard to use while duel wielding. You'd have to become more able to endure their somewhat higher weight. Claymores would be slow, but still reliable if you can learn how to better use one. Bows would be harder to use until your character became more able to shoot the arrow faster. Axes would not be renamed swords. How hard each kind is would depend on how well you could handle their weight also coming from the blade that is attached to the handle in most cases. You'd need only small amounts of endurance to really find less trouble in using them.

Warhammers would make the character very slow when using it, and walking would be slow much like the swinging speed of one already is. There'd be great amounts of endurance needed to use it well, but you could still use it, and even any weapon at level one.

I know this seems very limiting, but the way weapons are now, you're just using a renamed sword if it's one handed. Two handers seem and bows seem to be the only ones with any variety. In fact, let's ditch the perk trees and have the skills be less like a Gameboy being used on a bus(any system in the Gameboy line can play original Gameboy games) and more like skills. There's no getting better at them in Skyrim. Just getting more levels and perks.

Like I said, the three extra attributes would only be for increasing just how much impression you are leaving on your ability to use the weapon. One handed would be done away with and replaced with axe, short blade, and long blade. Two handed would stay, but might overlap with axe and long blade instead.

Armor would stay the same as it always has been. I'd like to see unarmored be reintroduced, though. All these attributes would do is just give your character a definition on how skilled they are at what. With six attributes(magic, health, and stamina would stay the same) you'd still be able to play without being limited, so don't worry. I just feel there should be more to actually using a weapon than just the words one handed or two handed. Also, Hand to hand should be reintroduced.

Devil's advocate here, but isn't that part of the "choice and consequences" thing that so many people here harp on. If you decide at level 50 that you suddenly you really want to be an archer, but you've been neglecting it up to that point...

That sounds like an argument for re-speccing--another thing that so many people here rail against and deride. Not me (or you) necessarily, but many people.

I wish they would remove perks as they don't belong in TES. Also some of the perks in Skyim IMO are cheats. I also wish they would bring back attributes (without it there is little to no reason to level up) and bring back classes.