Instant Gaming: How Home Environment and New Games Influence

Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:29 pm

Disclaimer: This is not a complaint thread, this is suppose to be a discussion thread. I'll be using Skyrim as my example of gaming being influenced and developed by a different demographic of gamer. Also this is not written here to insult people, only to discuss certain issues in the gaming world. Please also be respectful in this thread and don't flame and bait each other, no insulting, and no negativity. That doesn't mean you have to agree with me, but if you disagree please be respectful about the way you go about it. Thank you very much.

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Instant gratification is not a new thing, it's existed since human's have existed. All animals are biologically attuned to work and pleasure that comes with it the reward. Instant gratification in video games is not a new subject either, however, it is what is influencing the industry and a new environment of gamers. An example of a game that rewards instant gratification is a vastly popular game that everyone has heard of. Angry Birds, it's a game that you pick up and you can easily begin to get the reward without working towards the reward.

But I cannot just blame this problem on games alone. There is a new home environment as well. I grew up in a home, if something was hard I would spend hours trying to figure it out. If I played a game and it was hard I had to figure it out myself. My parents were not the type to say, "That's to hard, okay go do something else". Instead they would say, "That's to hard, I'm not giving you the answer, figure it out." It pushed me in my gaming and in my eductaion as well to figure things out. But I see a new breed of parenting style. I babysit, so I see some interesting things from time to time. One of the kids, J I'll call him for the story, I babysit cannot sit still for more than five minutes.

I remember one day coming over to spend time with J and his younger brother, let's call him M, his mother was getting ready to go to an important meeting. But it appeared that J was having some difficulty with a game, he was getting rather agitated and his mother was busying around the place. He finally tells his mom he cannot figure this out, he's desperate for answers, and she says, "Go do something else." Instead of allowing him to figure something out, she basically allowed him to give up. I also note that J prefers games like Angry Birds, which instantly give a reward.

For me, I take these new environments both industry built and one of an external model to what has happened to Skyrim. All though I do agree that Skyrim is the better of the RPGs out right now and I would much prefer to play Skyrim right now, I do also believe Skyrim is or had been influenced by this new environment. My first Elder Scrolls game was Oblivion and then Morrowind. My big brother had bought Morrowind, but I had only seen Oblivion on the television and I became mildly curious. I played it and fell in love. Now I'm not saying Oblivion was perfect, that isn't my argument. I am trying to say that Oblivion directly appealed to me because it was a game developed on working towards something in order to get a reward.

I have always enjoyed RPGs because they never appealed to the instant gratification. What people called, spreadsheets, dice roll, and to much work I called fun, and it made everything you did more satisfying in the end. The work was the struggle to figure out a puzzle or beat the difficult boss, and then you got the reward at the end of it. Skyrim, I think still has a little bit of this, but you can easily see the tipping point. That the next game could go either way. It could either slide back into a proportionate RPG or it can go further down the rabbit hole of these new industry.

But there is a problem with that. This new industry, this new environment of instant reward won't last. Angry Birds is a bit of a fad right now, but fads come and go. Not saying that they shouldn't built games for non gamers, but they shouldn't rely on the side of the spectrum as their main point of income. Have them in mind, and build a game that is balanced for all.

Even still the problem isn't simply instant gratification in gaming. It's the education as well of the players. I have seen this in the book industry, it's my dream to one day become a writer and an author. But I'm slowly beginning to the see industry I want to get into, becoming a pool of slosh. Again I can only speak from my experiences, I'm slowly beginning to realize that I have a better education than children do in this generation and age. When I was in fourth grade, while all the other children were on beginner novels, still with pictures, I began to read things like Goosebumps, I even discovered Homer and Edgar Allan Poe. Those were my influences to become a writer, especially a horror writer. I wanted to write educated books, intelligent, that made people think. And now I see things like Twilight and even Harry Potter [and I read both. Twilight was as bad of writing as you can get. Harry Potter was a guilty pleasure]. The level of books is beginning to lower and yet you still look at the statisitics and many children still cannot read well.

The lowering of our education standards means people won't understand complex ideas. We're not teaching people the fundamental tools they need. Critical thinking, anolytical thinking. We're not teaching people to understand, we're simply teaching them to test. And how can the video game industry make a higher educated game if half of their consumers are not at a higher education level? The answer is they can't. They can try. But if they want to survive, they have to lower themselves to the lowest common denominator.

I admire games like the Witcher 2 for going outside of the LCD. It was a rich, intelligent game. Well written story, it played like a classical RPG. Which is really hard to do in this new environment of gaming. Witcher 2 treats it's players as if they were mature advlts and that won't appeal to the twelve years and the thirteen years old. But I also feel that if the Witcher is going to continue doing well, it will have to lower it standards some point in order to make a living in this industry.

Now I want to make another comment, I'm not saying anyone is dumb nor am I instigating a fight here. I'm simply stating what I have observed over the years. Part of this is experience in the book industry, a lot of books are rejected because they don't appeal to the mainstream. And I know the two reasons behind it, one the publisher doesn't know me and doesn't know if a complicated book will do well in the market by a nobody in the author world. And two the lowering level of books. And my second experience comes from where I volunteer. I volunteer for a science education program, whom teach children the fundaments of science. Nearly half of the children where I am living are not getting proper education in science or even proper education in any subject. Art is dying. Sports is becoming successful. What a great disservice we are doing to this world by putting children in this kind of stupor, but I digress.

We need to start considering the way we want to go in the future of the gaming industry; in the future of the TES series.
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Kayla Keizer
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:42 am

To long for people to read.

No I agree with you, we had this conversation already so it's not like I can add anything further.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:18 am

Pretty much agree, except I would give Harry Potter a break. It wasn't literary gold but as a series, it is one of a kind. No book series will ever repeat the same level of fame and growth in adolescent reading as that series did.

Anyways, I want to touch on the "instant gratification" deal. I believe that phrase was used a great deal during the build up to Dragon Age 2 and even Skyrim. There is this sense of players supposedly wanting to be rewarded instantly within the industry. Todd somewhat mentions this with the removal of attributes. He felt the only reason attributes were there were to raise health, magic, and stamina. So now, you just instantly pick those three things and you instantly see your numbers go up. He also felt leveling was too slow, so they sped it up by making everything count to leveling so that, once again, you continually hear the level up jingle.

I'm a Psych major with a minor in music and literature. Nearly everything I've been taught in my cognitive developmental courses has been the importance of continual rewards for achievements, but only at an early age. However, those rewards don't mean purely trophy-like rewards. It could be the attention and admiration of the parent or friends. In a game, it should be the game going, "wow, that puzzle was really challenging" or "You barely survived that fight" and then say, "good job" through whatever resources it has available. For me, one of the rewards in Oblivion is escaping the jail in the beginning and getting that first view of the scenery. Now, here is what Skyrim has.

Dragon words at the end of every dungeon. It's so predictable and obvious that the rewards lose their meaning. I honestly don't care for shouts in this game. I think they were handled poorly. All I do is enter a dungeon, go to the end, and i learn it without any effort on my part (Why can't the player search the wall to learn it themselves?).
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Manny(BAKE)
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:29 pm

Dragon words at the end of every dungeon. It's so predictable and obvious that the rewards lose their meaning. I honestly don't care for shouts in this game. I think they were handled poorly. All I do is enter a dungeon, go to the end, and i learn it without any effort on my part (Why can't the player search the wall to learn it themselves?).

It be pretty damn cool if we could grab a roll of paper and charcoal the word wall as is, go to the greybeards and then they began to teach you how to inerpret the words. Like extra training with them. Instead "oh look you absorbed this".

So some radiant quest with greybeards, whom would send you out to record word walls and come back to them.
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Sophie Payne
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:08 am

It be pretty damn cool if we could grab a roll of paper and charcoal the word wall as is, go to the greybeards and then they began to teach you how to inerpret the words. Like extra training with them. Instead "oh look you absorbed this".

So some radiant quest with greybeards, whom would send you out to record word walls and come back to them.

And that would be a much better reward. If you actually want to learn dragon words, you need to remember to carry out roll of paper and charcoal. Roll of paper can be a heavy item, so this brings in character development. Does your Dragonborn care to learn every shout possible, or only a few?
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Cat Haines
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:17 pm

And that would be a much better reward. If you actually want to learn dragon words, you need to remember to carry out roll of paper and charcoal. Roll of paper can be a heavy item, so this brings in character development. Does your Dragonborn care to learn every shout possible, or only a few?

Exactly. Rashir only uses Slow Time, and Aura Whisper because those I think are perfect for a deadly Assassin type character. But it's a nightmare to find the other two words for them.

edit-

It would be interesting if the Greybeards asked what kind of Dragonborn you wanted to be:

-Ethereal could use astal ghost, aura whisper, slow time

-Physical could use Fus Ro Dah

-Swift could use words like Elemental Fury, Whirlwind

-Elemental, well that's obvious

It would be interesting cause then you could focus on the words you want to focus on. Instead of never unlocking the ones you won't use.
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Jinx Sykes
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:57 am

Pretty much agree, except I would give Harry Potter a break. It wasn't literary gold but as a series, it is one of a kind. No book series will ever repeat the same level of fame and growth in adolescent reading as that series did.

Anyways, I want to touch on the "instant gratification" deal. I believe that phrase was used a great deal during the build up to Dragon Age 2 and even Skyrim. There is this sense of players supposedly wanting to be rewarded instantly within the industry. Todd somewhat mentions this with the removal of attributes. He felt the only reason attributes were there were to raise health, magic, and stamina. So now, you just instantly pick those three things and you instantly see your numbers go up. He also felt leveling was too slow, so they sped it up by making everything count to leveling so that, once again, you continually hear the level up jingle.

I'm a Psych major with a minor in music and literature. Nearly everything I've been taught in my cognitive developmental courses has been the importance of continual rewards for achievements, but only at an early age. However, those rewards don't mean purely trophy-like rewards. It could be the attention and admiration of the parent or friends. In a game, it should be the game going, "wow, that puzzle was really challenging" or "You barely survived that fight" and then say, "good job" through whatever resources it has available. For me, one of the rewards in Oblivion is escaping the jail in the beginning and getting that first view of the scenery. Now, here is what Skyrim has.

Dragon words at the end of every dungeon. It's so predictable and obvious that the rewards lose their meaning. I honestly don't care for shouts in this game. I think they were handled poorly. All I do is enter a dungeon, go to the end, and i learn it without any effort on my part (Why can't the player search the wall to learn it themselves?).

You make a valid point. I feel more rewarded when I get other things than Dragon Words. Recently went into a dungeon and had to fight a draugr army. My reward was the Ghostblade. And I felt more satisified than I have been. A tough battle, some draugr, and no dragon wall, but a cool sword. Now that's reward.
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Shirley BEltran
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:20 pm



It be pretty damn cool if we could grab a roll of paper and charcoal the word wall as is, go to the greybeards and then they began to teach you how to inerpret the words. Like extra training with them. Instead "oh look you absorbed this".
Love this idea.
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Jynx Anthropic
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:12 am

Pretty much had the same gaming experience when I was younger. My parents even got me Pokemon Gold well before I learned to read. I can understand why many want to be rewarded "instantly", but they will move on to different experiences soon enough. My nephew used to only like car related games until I let him play the various superhero freeroam games I have. In fact, he's the only reason I keep Prototype in my game collection. He liked it. He likes Angry Birds, but he will play some of the kinds of games I like. Closest to an RPG he normally wants to be is the simplified table top one I made up or a Kingdom Hearts game.

Personally, I prefer having to work for the reward. Can't say much about education, as I don't have many opinions on it.
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Dark Mogul
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:56 am

Is the entire OP an advertisemant for Witcher 2?
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katsomaya Sanchez
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:41 pm

Is the entire OP an advertisemant for Witcher 2?

No. Just my brother has been playing it recently and he absolutely loves it. I finally let him, after I beat it and allowed him to play. It's just a new experience for him. I was like that with Bioshock, which imo is another great example of treating it's players like mature advlts. And still has one of the greatest plot twist in video game history.
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:52 am

It be pretty damn cool if we could grab a roll of paper and charcoal the word wall as is, go to the greybeards and then they began to teach you how to inerpret the words. Like extra training with them. Instead "oh look you absorbed this".

So some radiant quest with greybeards, whom would send you out to record word walls and come back to them.
Love this idea.
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Matthew Aaron Evans
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:39 am

Is the entire OP an advertisemant for Witcher 2?
He was just praising it. He was talking about the fad going around right now in gaming involving getting rewarded "instantly". You know, like Angry Birds. Might be wrong, though.
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Love iz not
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:28 am

He was just praising it. He was talking about the fad going around right now in gaming involving getting rewarded "instantly". You know, like Angry Birds. Might be wrong, though.
So what does this have to do with Skyrim?
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Channing
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:45 am

It always seems that gamers are so quick to blame Bethesda for streamlining, but a lot of it is the fault of gamers themselves. I would love if in game choices would close off game content depending on your choices, but the "I need to do everything with one character" type gamer ruins that. I also place blame on Trophies/ Achievements. I can recall many topics about people throwing hissy fits because the Rueful Axe does not count as a Daedric artifact.
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Chris Johnston
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:40 am

So what does this have to do with Skyrim?
He does talk about Skyrim in the post. Mainly demographics, though or something. I read the whole post, and understand it. Just am so tired, my mind is wondering to Pluto.
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Jennifer Rose
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:06 am

He does talk about Skyrim in the post. Mainly demographics, though or something. I read the whole post, and understand it. Just am so tired, my mind is wondering to Pluto.
Barely. It's a bit ironic that it took such a long, roundabout text to say "I think TES is dumbing down." Ironic as well that Witcher 2 (which I love, btw) is set out as an example when it is significantly pared down from its predecessor.

Since the average gamer is mid-30's, games could as well be responding to the demographic that doesn't want to spend hours going from city to city just to join a guild, or crawling across a game world because there's a speed penalty. That said, Steam statistics suggest people are spending many hours in Skyrim doing something. I've got at least 500 hours by now, and I'm not of the Harry Potter generation. I'm doing the same thing I was doing in previous TES games- creating characters in a rich, multifaceted world.
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Jynx Anthropic
 
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Post » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:05 am

I really do not hope that TES (or Dragon Age for that matter) gets dumbed down even more in the future installments. Bioware and Bethesda are my favorite game developers. After I played Oblivion and Skyrim, I got the feeling that Bethesda watered their games down too much. Anymore streamlining than that will just ruin their series. We all know what happened to Dragon Age 2 :facepalm:
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x a million...
 
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