Hello.

First of all I would like to say that I love Bethesdas philosophy in allowing users to hack their games. The user created content is a big part of what makes Bethesdas games not just another video game. The open ended expansiveness is the other.



So I have not been following the story, but is there going to be a Linux port or not? Will users who run a Gnome desktop (or KDE/E17) on a Debian based OS be able to play this game with a native linux port?

Historically speaking a lot of games could get away with expecting users to dual boot, and they would still get the linux crowd.....part of me thinks that this isnt going to fly anymore, at least not to the same extent.....In my opinion there are a lot more people using linux these days, and its really difficult to get the real statistics unless you do random house calls, since most people buy a PC that is bare bones or maybe had windows and install it on their own, [snip]. There isnt a good way to know for sure what the market share is, but it seems like more and more people are using linux full time these days.....maybe I just live in a college town, but most people seem to be shunning windows and the mega-corporations in favor of Mac or Linux, with Linux being the economical and yet more customizable option between the two. I think its a significant market share.

The reason I DONT think that users will want to dual boot this time is because of advances in technology (dual cores) and modern computer habits.....people used to have to shut off their other programs to play a game. Now with quad and octo cores and most games using only 1 or 2 cores, [snip], be converting video and audio to free formats, have messenger going, and still play a CPU intensive game or even two......Why is this significant? People dont want to log off anymore. They dont want to [snip] or stop their file conversions so they can log off and play a game on their less favorable system. Not anymore. It didnt matter when you could ONLY play a game anyway. Now it matters.

Another thing to consider is that more people are buying PCs without WIndows on them at all. More people are buying Macs or bare bones or Linux installed PCs from dell or from Systerm 76 or just installing it themselves and not paying for windows....A Mac user can dual boot linux to play a game, or run linux as a virtual machine and not have to log out, but a Mac user isnt going to pay for Windows if they already have a Mac just to play a game....they might however run linux as a virtual within OSX.


On the positive side of writing a linux port, the linux geeks might represent a smaller % of the market, but they tend to be a pretty appreciative crowd. They seem to go out of their way to support game makers who produce Linux ports and there has been a trend of [censored] talking or boycotting game makers who back out of producing linux ports....Not everyone does this, but if a game has a native linux port you will probably get a higher % of Linux users jumping on the game bandwagon because there are fewer game developers who do it....so you will capture a higher % of a smaller crowd, including many who would not have been willing or able to dual boot.


This is just my opinion, but I really hope that somebody is working on a native linux port and not just expecting us to dual boot.

Bethesda Game Studios is not developing this game. Splash Damage is developing it, while Bethesda Softworks is publishing it.

Do they read the forums here? I should publish this on Splash?


Anyway, do you think my argument has any merit?

1. People are less inclined to dual boot due to the advances in technology and changing habits of users.
2. There is a growing but difficult to document number of linux users...especially in poorer countries, but also in the college towns. There is a growing popularity among the same crowd who likes to play games.
3. Mac users can easily and for FREE run linux as a virtual machine inside of Mac to expand the market into Mac just by writing a linux port, but running Windows as a virtual machine is not always as practical of an option.
4. Linux users support people who create software for them, so you are likely to get better returns than their market share represents....Also, free advertising.


Do all of these seem like reasonable arguments?

To me, they don't. Not so much. I mean, I [think that I...] see where you're coming from.

But honestly, if it was a sure bet for significant returns on Linux games, or Linux ports of existing games, don't you think companies X, Y and Z (and, indeed, the rest of the alphabet) would have already thoroughly exploited that market?

Counterpoints:

Most people using Linux are either poor (and therefore most likely not good candidates for spending money on pure frivolities such as computer games), running servers or whatever (and therefore probably not even interested in adding games to that mix), or yeah, "hackers" in the old skool sense (and therefore more keen on coding, testing, and just plain exploring, for want of a better word)... well, and then there's dabblers, some of whom might progress to one or both of the latter two previous types, but most of whom I imagine won't, returning to Windows (or the other one) so's to get on with what they really want to do.


Fundamentally though, "appreciation" doesn't pay the bills, bottom line.

I dont agree that Linux users are necessarily poor. In the case of third word users it certainly may the be the case, but in the US and western markets many students may try to save a buck by using Linux and yet that same 'poor' student will drop $60 on [snip] or their favorite video game. I would not assume that Linux geeks dont have money to spend. A lot of Linux geeks drop TONS of money into hardware for their rigs....I have been on the forums, and they are constantly dropping bucks on upgrading their equipment....I dont think people (In the US anyway) are choosing Linux because they are poor.

I dont think that companies X Y Z would already have tapped the Linux market if it was profitable.....but a few companies have. Quake has done pretty well for Linux.

And this might not be obvious but Bethesda has already made money off the Linux crowd....they are not dual booting Windows but they are trying to use WINE to run games. Oblivion finally runs excellent with WINE if you use PlayonLinux, and Fallout 3 is tolerable. However, when you go this route what ends up happening is that people dont buy the game until much later when there is better support for it....SO they are not buying the game until the prices drop, NOT BECAUSE the prices are dropping but because it takes a year or two or three before people figure out how to play the game in WIne, and also because you take a hit in performance without a native port.....So people already are playing Bethesda games on Linux without dual booting or [snip], but they are not going to be jumping on the bandwagon and paying full price until there is better support......Unless there is good support right off the bat with a native Linux port, in which case you might get $60 from them now instead of $20 from them later.

Also, it takes times for people to adapt. The reason this isnt conventional wisdom is because market studies will always be behind the curve. The info you get is always from last generation, as the current state of things takes vision to predict....yeah, even the present takes vision to predict.

The technology that allows you to run 5 apps at once including a resource intensive game + the habits of new users that keeps people from wanting to log off their preferred system ([snip]) is not something that was written into the conventional wisdom of 5 years ago when Oblivion came out. People could only play Oblivion, making it not a big deal to dual boot.....now if I dual boot, [snip], unless I just use WIndows, and that isnt happening.


I probably wont buy this game if its Windows only......[snip]

I would definitely buy this game if it has a Linux port, and I would even pay a few bucks extra for the port itself.

Hence, the use of the word "either".


Perhaps you are underestimating companies' priorities, and - in almost every single case - their commitment to the top of that list (i.e., making money).


So, you are a data point. Among a tiny, tiny minority of gamers who happen to insist on using Linux to game on. Good luck with that (getting what you are hoping for, that is).

As for market research, et al - yes, it tends to be conservative. Why? Because what is most likely to work in reality is the important thing. Sure, if you're making games as some kind of free-and-easy hobby, you could say "screw market research", "screw the current real world trends", and in fact, "screw profits!" - but, generally speaking, companies are there to make money. Simple as that, like it or lump it.

I am not speaking out of complete ignorance, in case you were wondering - I've qualifications in IT, use Linux (and Windows, I will admit!) quite regularly, have done some coding in its environments, and personally know a couple of pro game designers. Admittedly, economics is not my strong suit, and never has been, but the foundations of the business world? Yeah, pretty sure I understand those.

I don't believe Splash Damage has worked on Linux ports in the past so I wouldn't expect it with Brink. Now that Bethesda is the publisher for all of id's games perhaps we'll see more interest with Linux publishing in the future.

While this is a perfectly fine topic and some of the discussion was quite constructive this thread also contained numerous references to restricted topics and as such I am locking it. As a general rule torrents are not to be discussed on the forums as they are strongly associated with media piracy. While the mentions here were fairly neutral the shear number of mentions made them impossible to ignore. Discussions of drugs are also inappropriate.

Finally, discussion of media piracy, and in particularly the advocating of piracy, are treated very strictly on the forums. I think it is very understandable why Bethesda wouldn't want people advocating the theft of their games on their own forums.

If someone wants to continue this discussion they are welcomed to start a new, fresh thread on the topic. In this case please make sure it stays on tract and stays away from restricted topics.

If anyone needs to discuss why this was thread was locked please PM me.