Hey guys,

I am player who always tries to max out his characters regarding both skills and gear. So when I discovered smithing and enchanting I could not stop until I crafted the best weapons and armors in game. I achieved this goal around lvl20. Than when I completed the different quest chains and acquired the great armor sets and daedric artifacts I noticed that I don't use any of them because my hand crafted gear is better.

And this made me think. I really love the feeling when you find a unique weapon or armor in the game and you would be like "hell yeah im gonnah wield the Cruel Sword of Timmy from now b$tches!" And not the "hell yeah wtf great sword I found... but wait! my currently equipped is better, so just sell it"

I know that it is my fault that I crafted too good gear too fast. But that is what a player does who wants to get the best available. So the question is: are players who want to experience the great joy of finding new and powerful gear enough good at self control not to abuse smithing and enchanting? Well, I confess that I'm not.

I would love to hear your thoughts about this, did you take the effort to craft your dream-gear? Or you avoided it to enjoy finding the premade gear in game? Do you think smithing and enchanting are overpowered and should be nerfed? Or they are just fine and players should chose what do they want: superpowered gear or enjoyment of discovery?

Please write what you would do in the place of Bethesda when you create the next Elder Scrolls game!

Cheers

So your saying since you can't use any self control the game should be altered for you and others with ADD??

I dunno but I highly agree we need better quest loot, being able to craft and enchant the best out there (even more so than demons) is not good. I have almost no want to quest besides killing all who think they can stand to me. I barely check things anymore and I don't mine at all since i got the elite of elite gear. After lvl 25 for me it was all pure quest finishing.

I found Morrowind very fun and still do for the creativity of the game. Oblivion was good but I figured it could get better. Skyrim is great but things like this are crucial to me.

Not only enchanting, but all crafting does make the game easier, the real thing about it is do you need to lvl all crafting skills, the answer is no. Its just an option that is there, it is possible to play on master lvling just smithing or enchanting, its not optimal, but possible, it is simply a matter of personal taste.

Remember this is a sandbox game, there will always be easier ways to get from point A to B, but what rly matters is the amount of option you have to go from point A to B, if there is one that is 100x times better then the other well I understand how it can bother some people, but in asingle player game it is a matter of self control and self apllied chalenges.

I dont think nerfing smithing/enchanting is the way to go but maybe buffing the unquies and artifacts would be better. If your playing a stealth character be it using heavy armour or light armour your going to take the muffle perk because you need to take it if want any of the other perks that come after it in the sneak tree so when you get a piece of armour like the nightingale boots which already have the muffle enchant on them its makes you feel like youve just wasted a perk. an then why bother even wearing that armour when you can just make a dragon scale set which will be superior to it anyway.

I don't think enchanting or smithing should be nerfed, but I do think unique weapons and armor should be either buffed or given unique enchantments that you cannot make yourself.

I waited till level 48ish (maybe 50) to craft any of the Dragonscale gear and Daedric weapons. I then proceeded to turn the game to master. Now I am level 80 with armor cap, etc etc. I actually stopped using my crafted armor in place of nightingale (because it looks cooler) so I don't have any +archery or +one-handed enchants so I feel it is balanced in that regard. I can actually still be one shot by enemies using spells, dragons included.

So all in all I feel it is up to the player to regulate their own play style and change it to fit what they find fun. For myself; once I took off the crafted armor I felt I balanced it a bit. My daggers do 171 damage. My bow is around 200 damage. That to me is perfect; but everyone has to find their own.

Sten says:
http://i51.tinypic.com/r1ei9x.png

Skyrim gives you the freedom to create über gear, and it gives you the freedom to finish the main questline with what you randomly pick up on the way.
The professions are fine, really.

Theres a lot of idiots on this board defending this game. OP play how you want to play, I already made my toon godly then hung up the gear and now wearing light armor with enchants for a somewhat decent experience but anyways even in real life i am godly.

I don't really understand why "balance" is an issue here. It's a single player game. You're not spoling someone else's fun in a PvP match so that they have to have an identical character build to compete. Why does someone else playing "God mode" affect you in any way and how would denying them this option increase your enjoyment of how you choose to play?

(Personally if I start feeling overpowered I just roll a new character and enjoy the slingshot and rusty pocket knife levels again .)

Single player games should never be nerfed, they just need more difficulty levels and the player needs self-restraint.

Cap the smithing at the level of 100 skill and the correcsponding perk so everyone that dosnt use smithing but uses smithing gear and pots can get to the same max level but not exploit it.
Then fix stamina so you can only power attack if you have the needed stamina pool to use it (same as it is with magic atm) and everything is balanced and nothing gets nerfed.

The problem is that the best way to do e.g. more one-handed damage is not to increase one-handed but to increase smithing and or enchanting.

And that just does not feel right. Not taking smithing and enchanting feels like gimping oneself unless one is a devoted role playing enthusiast.

Other than that, particularly smithing is boring (from a game design perspective) and voids all the loot you find as outlined by the OP.

This has some tradition in TES though. Enchanting was totally overpowered in Moroowind too. Maybe even more. BUT, it was much more difficult to get that far in Morrowind than it is in Skyrim.

That said, I would propose not to nerf these two skills, which would make boring but powerful skills just boring, but to change them into something more challenging, interesting and less overpowered.
The ability to improve magic items for example hints in the right direction. And the emphasis is on improvement, not total replacement. It would not be easy though, to come up with a totally different skilltree.

I suggest leave this up to mods instead of official patches

I for one would probably get a mod myself that completly unlocks smithing and enchanting (fortify enchanting enchantment for example)

i really like the smithing and enchanting. i shouldn't have to stop doing something i like to keep the game interesting. my solution would be tougher enemies and better level and loot scaling.

I def feel like we need better loot and to cap enchanting, smithing abilities at lvl 100 (none of this fortify enchantment equips + fortified alchemy potions that give ridiculous bonuses).
While some people LIKE feeling like a god you can just turn on effing god mode and win that way not like its any difference. (give xbox and PS3 gamers a god mode-toggle in the settings ).

As for loot I have to admit its rather disappointing. I feel that there are def some amazing weapons and gear (Spellbreaker and Mehrunes Razor for example) but besides those few the rest are extremely outclassed by self-enchant-able gear.

once again someone wants to nerf the game, its not gonna happen, all skills are designed to be able to be powerful if you invest in them,, its an rpg, you don't need to worry about how easy it is for other people, its what you make of it, if you want to enchant all your items or become an expert thats what you're suppose to be able to do, if you want to be a 100 lb weakling you can do that, why would bethesda nerf everyones game? i don't think they'll be putting restrictions like that on the game because a few people complain its "too easy".

I dont think enchanting is too overpowered at all. Now, maybe they should limit the alchemy/enchanting->smithing feedback loop, but enchanting itself with no other cheese considerations is just right.

@OP: I think they ought to leave it, and let you show restraint rather than everyone else having to have their character choices changed for them by you.

It would be nice if enchants did something besides add raw damage. I never see disenchantable items with "muffle" "night vision" "water breathing" etc on them. What if there were enchants that increased the effect of healing potions? What about ehcnants that made you move or attack faster? What if magicka regen during combat wasn't so nerfed, so mana regen enchants actually mattered, etc?

I mean, they can just nerf enchanting, and okay, that will make it harder to "max out" but then there will be very little use for enchanting. Not allowing the purchase of charged grand soul gems (or increasing the price and rarity dramatically) might also be a solution, IF the Black Star weren't in the game.

I think it's incredibly cool that you can make the best gear in the game. In too many other games, I spend hours and hours crafting the best sword I can and then I go in some dungeon and find something better. Oh well, guess I'll just throw my crafted stuff away; it's worthless.

If you spend the effort to make the best gear possible, you shouldn't have to look elsewhere for it.

I do see a lot of posts saying that Enchanting + Smithing (+ Alchemy) is a formula that multiplies a character's power to insane levels. Perhaps their synergy is too much. Potions that increase the effectiveness of permanent enchantments, and enchantments that permanently increase the effectiveness of smithing improvements, and so on, is too strong a cocktail. Crafting skills should add to each others' results, but not multiply them. The combo in Skyrim is just a bit too extreme, it seems.

But, again, I'm not saying that crafted gear should be weak or middle-of-the-road. I love being able to make better gear than most everything out there. If I can't, crafting skills are just a time-waster between using my real skills.

It might be nice if some crafting materials and/or soul gems were a little harder to find. Seriously, where are all these souls coming from? Does every shopkeeper go out and kill 5 wolves and 2 bears every morning?

Lastly, in any game if you are going to sit there and grind/powerlevel instead of playing the game as intended, you are going to break something. There will always be a path of least resistance, and as players we must learn to recognize what is and is not intended behavior. Sitting there crafting 200 Iron Daggers gets results, but is not fun gameplay and is probably not what you should be doing. That said, unlike many here, I do believe that is the responsibility of game designers to NOT reward boring behavior. Players should not be expected to do things the hard way if they want to have fun; the game should come out of the box with a strong balance between challenge and reward. "Just don't craft" is not the best solution to Skyrim's crafting problem (and make no mistake - it is a problem).

Just as a point of reference, I have two crafting characters: a warrior (Smithing) and a mage (Enchanting + Alchemy). Both characters are around level 20 and neither has come close to maxing their skills; they are about on par with my combat skills. Both characters are still finding good challenges on Adept difficulty (they still get killed when I play stupid). So I would say that, separately, crafting skills are working as intended. I'm thinking it's just when you use all three synergetically that things get out of hand.

This is about the 50th thread along these lines.

Single player game. Do not use the overpowered system if you do not want to.

I do not use enchanting perks at all, that way I have a motivation to explore and collect wondrous game items. Other people like making their own best gear.

TO EACH... THEIR OWN...

this really is an idividual thing, if i want my character super powerfull in an area or two after 40 or 50 levels thats what i should be able to do, if you think enchating is too powerful ...don't use it !.. but what i really hear is some people don't want other peoples character to be too powerful, people natually like lots of restrictions on things for other people, this is a fantasy game, you're suppose to be able to be a powerful wizard, or heavy armor weilding crusher, or an expert alchemist, its the payoff of your hard work at grinding, all the skills can be powerful if you invest in em, if the game is too easy for you, thats not something i need to be punished for, my game doesn't need to be nerfed cause someone else does't want me to have a powerful avatar. so its not gonna happen...they won't be nerfing skills, they don't need to nerf em, if you don't want your avatar too powerful don't make it powerful, you can make a weak avatar and play like that, don't enchant anything, use stock weapons, its real easy to nerf yourself but you ain't nerfing my game.

i dont use enchanting. I have no problem not using it. If you cannot avoid using enchanting when you dont want to then something is wrong with you.

I wish the OP and all the people like him would go back to WoW. Blizzard loves nerfing stuff.

i think magic is a bit underpowered if anything, magic regeneration is really slow in combat and its lacks a bit of a punch at higher levels, so just becuause you can get your lets say destructive magic costs down to zero, thats how it needs to be, you can't one shot too many things with magic, you have to casts a lot of spells to kill some enemies so making that weaker isn't gonna happen, so as it is they need to boost magic regeneration and maybe make each spell do a bit more damage, but nerfing it further..NEGATIVE!!

good idea, I going to do this too
ps: would be more fun to not use smithing