EDIT: Yes I did take into account the gun condition. Both are 100%.

I don't understand why the stats (DAM, DPS) for the 10mm SMG are greater than the Assault Carbine? I don't remember the exact numbers, but it says something like this in the Pip-Boy (overall Gun Skill 75, Strength 7):

10mm SMG
DAM: 17
DPS: 147

Assault Carbine
DAM: 10
DPS: 120

I really would like to use the Assault Carbine but there's no point in buying it or ever using it. I mean, a DAM of 17 for the SMG is at least usable, but a DAM of 10 is practically worthless. Plus, the 10mm SMG has a larger clip and costs less.

wtf were they thinking here or am I missing something? The thing that frustrates me is that there is almost no reason for this weapon to be in the game - at least I can't see one.

10mm is expensive

I think this comes down to a couple thing really, personal taste and more importantly the different kinds of ammunition you can put in there. I think that 5.56mm HP or AP rounds would be more devastating than normal 10mm rounds. As for the clips size, there might be a mod to increase the clip size. :gun:

Assault Carbine uses 5mm rounds. 10mm SMG uses 10mm rounds.

Did you take the condition of the weapons into account because a 3/4 health submachine gun would be stronger than a 1/4 health assault carbine.

The Assault Carbine uses 5mm, same as the minigun. I suppose that's it's advantage, since that's probably the cheapest and most abundant ammunition in the game. And yeah there is an extended mag for it too, although it only increases the capacity to 30.

Personally I'd take the 10mm SMG over the Carbine any day. The Assault Carbine is just a stepping stone to the Minigun. Same goes for the Laser RCW and the Gatling Laser.

Yeah, forgot to mention that I did -- both at 100%.



I see what you're saying - 10mm ammo has indeed been less abundant in my game, and a lot of times I save my 10mm SMG for tough fights because I never have a lot of it. Good point. But I still havent figured out how ammo is spawned in the game because it tends to show up depending on the guns I'm carrying/using/buying.

Also, it WOULD make sense that 10mm ammo causes more damage than 5mm, but it's still Rifle vs. SMG. It just feels like the damage's should be reversed.

Edit: Double post.

That not really going to change the damage, just accuracy. But yes, 10mm is alot better than 5mm.

Isn't muzzle velocity relevant ...........

Also, for those saying 5mm is common... I'll agree that 10mm has been hard to come by, but I actually have almost no 5mm ammo........ I also don't have guns using 5mm yet, so maybe it just depends what guns you have and that's the type of ammo you'll find? Or does someone somehow know for a fact that's not true?

also 5mm is extremely common... at least for me if i had a assload of 5mm and a beastly low weight weapon to go with it than its a lil bit OP

Especially if it's armour piercing lol. Still I think the Minigun is the way to go if you're gonna use 5mm ammunition. As long as you have the stat requirements for it.

Minigun+High-Speed Motor+Damped Subframe+AP 5MM > God

i havent been using big guns at all in NV... and thats all i did in FO3 lol jsut to many fun options with sniping ,etc.. might get back in sprayin and prayin again

I have a crap load of 10mm and very little 5mm, and I mainly use the 10mm SMG for non-stealth kills and the varmint rifle + scope + suppressor for most of my stealth kills. Considering how little 5mm I have, you may be right.

[Off topic] It's amazing how much longevity the varmint rifle has as a stealth weapon. I'm at level 20 and can still kill most things with one shot with a varmint rifle head shot while in sneak mode. Then again, I haven't killed many non-human targets in a while.[/Off topic]

That probably is more fun to be honest. I've just started a sort of sniper/cowboy critical hit playthrough, and I'm loving the sniping. I'm only using a scoped 9mm pistol mind you.. but it's good fun lol.

The diameter of the projectile has little to do with how powerful the round is.

Real 10mm AUTO has a muzzle energy of around 750ft·lbf while M855 5.56mm NATO has 1700ft·lbf

10mm is a pistol round that has a low muzzle velocity, 5mm is a fictional rifle round that supposedly replaced 5.56x45mm NATO so I would imagine it would have superior performance.

In any case real-life ballistics aside it makes no sense for the assault carbine in-game to be such a worthless weapon.

NAME DMG: SHOT DPS SPRD CRIT %MULT CRIT DMG AMMO MAG WG VALUE V:W AP DMG: AP HP Base ID ATT REQ
Assault Carbine 12 144 1.5 x 1 12 5mm 24 6 3950 658.(3) 20 0.6 400 0008f21e Guns:75 Strength:3
10mm SMG 20 181 4.0 x 1 19 10mm 30 5 2370 475 20 1 250 00004321 Guns:50 Strength:5


Iv taken the liberty of high-lighting for you the areas in which the assault carbine is better in orange (would of used blue but for readabilitys sake), and worse in red. (taken straight from the GECK) This table wont line up properly becuase of this stupid editor, but none the less i think you can figure it out.
Clearly the SMG is better for close range, but with that spread of 4 that will sevearly hurt in medium to long range. So long story short. SMG = close range, Carbine = long range.

Edit: tried to fix table.... too much trouble

lol, thank you. I thought I was going crazy. There's more to it than just the size of the round....



Pete, thanks for that post. It makes me feel a LITTLE better that the spread is better (but I can't understand what the AP round damage is from that table).

Still though, I think that given the way the game is designed with Damage Threshold, a low DAM weapon is pretty worthless (with exception to the recharger rifle which is fun because it doesn't require ammo).

Can someone tell me whether AP 5mm ammo is common? If so where can I get it? I really want to have a reason to carry/use the Assault Carbine.

Rifles have superior range and lower spread, that is a serious advantage.

Assault Carbine is a bit more accurate and it looks cooler. That's all I needed to choose it.

5MM ammo is VERY common with the Gun Runners. I was able to amass over 2,000 rounds of AP and over 2,000 rounds of normal 5mil pretty damn quickly through them. I bought them in batches of 700 rounds or so.

Try the "code" tag, which forces a fixed-width font...

Energy alone is as useless as diameter alone in determining its effect on target. Energy have to be transferred in to target, otherwise its useless. That is where larger calibre ammunition have advantage over low calibre. Especially because low calibre military ammunition have hard jacked and do not deform as much upon impact as soft projectiles of larger calibre.

This is very tricky and not as simple as just calibre comparison or muzzle energy. Many other things matter.

Bye the way 5.56x45mm NATO replaced 7.62x51 NATO which was MUCH stronger round. So you can not assume that round is automatically stronger than one it replaces.

Baaah, 10mm... 5mm... .357 Magnum is what counts up close.

could have told you this from the start...common sense...smg=short range more spread...rifle long range less spread

Lets look at this from a practical standpoint. I will ignore ballistics and physics and kinetic energy here.

When your fighting a bunch of people close up, you want to spray as many bullets into the crowd as you can to cut down as many enemies as possible in as short amount of time as possible, and a machine gun is ideal for that. The fact that there is less energy being applied to the target per round is offset by the fact that more rounds will land on target.

When you have time to take aim and choose your targets, it is because they are farther away and you have the time to do so, that is when you want one bullet to do as much work as possible. A machine gun, just because of recoil will not be accurate over a larger distance, whereas a rifle will be more accurate at a distance, and carry more kinetic energy when it gets there.

So, use both and switch out based on tactics needed to win the fight.