About cleaning dirty ESP : V

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:03 pm

First for all, sorry for my following English

I'm Italian.

I have a weird, very weird issue with the ESP
I have created a mod and I'm trying to clean dirty and all is ok, except for YngolBarrow01 interior cell.
This cell is part of vanilla Skyrim.
I'm trying to mark as ignore when loading my mod, but when I save it, close CK, reloading the mod, the YngolBarrow01 is again * marked.
Tryed TESVsnip too but no lucky, this software displays just the node "GROUP" in YngolBarrow01 but nothing is inside.
This probably it happens because at the beginning about working this mod, I've tested the teleport feature of the doors. When I worked the exterior cell, I've tested the door to teleport to YngolBarrow01 and I've realized that "works". So I've deleted the exterior door of my fort (not unchecked the teleport), saved and reload with ignore mark for YngolBarrow01. I've only realized yesterday that YngolBarrow01 is still "alive" in my mod.........
Do you know some good software to clean ESP or a workaround to remove YngolBarrow01 from my mod?

Thank you and again sorry for my English

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:42 am

Did you use TESVsnip to delete the GROUP node from your ESP? Then save, and use the CK to re-open your ESP, and say "yes" when it asks to correct the file header.

If that doesn't work, you may have to rebuild your ESP file, being careful to NOT touch anything you don't need. (I learned the hard way to stay disciplined and focused while making a mod.)

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:20 am

Did you use TESVsnip to delete the GROUP node from your ESP? Then save, and use the CK to re-open your ESP, and say "yes" when it asks to correct the file header.

I remember yes and no lucky.

If that doesn't work, you may have to rebuild your ESP file....

Are you sure? Please...

I think I should do a test:

Using the TESVsnip, I'll try to remove the YngolBarrow01 node, all teleport doors and rename all the interior cells. So with CK, I have to remake the teleport doors.
Will be helpful?
The YngolBarrow01 was a mistake by teleport door managing.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:42 am

the NVMI record is probably still pointing to some door in the cell. the NVMI is in the NAVI group

usually this record is overwritten by the current teleport location after you finalize your navmeshes (no need to delete or start over)

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:36 am

Amethyst Deceiver is correct... if you have navMesh in a custom cell (interior OR exterior), then finalize that cell it'll write records for any cell it's linked to (eg: the door which connects your area to Vanilla). By deleting the NVMI subrecord which corresponds to the Vanilla navMesh, you delete the ability for followers to properly traverse the door (I think it's only on re-exit, but I seem to remember this MAY not be the case somehow).

Whenever you finalize a Vanilla cell's navMesh, CK writes records for EVERY cell surrounding it (ie- any cell which has navMesh linked to the cell you're finalizing). I experimented with this, and found that one may safely delete all the extra cell's data; UNLESS the edits to the navMesh you made involve changing one of those cell-borders. Keep in mind that this may have ramifications which I couldn't perceive during my testing... as does ANYTHING which uses 3rd-party tools to edit stuff with.

Now.. having said all that; you can delete everything in your ESP relating to the contents of a cell... but if you don't delete the CELL record and the empty GRUP beneath it, the CK will still show it was altered. It really isn't a big deal, but I can sympathize if you want a nice tidy ESP. I assume you're trying to use Ye Olde ESM/ESP trick? I'm not sure why else you';d want to delete your ref's from your ESP. If this is the case, and you're willing to chance potential issues by using this technique, I suggest Snipping over ANYTHING Vanilla; as well as the entire NAVI GRUP.

[EDIT: I tried to copy/paste Italian over from my word processor... but the formatting was NOT accepted by this forum, and the entire post 'exploded'. All the accents must've caused problems. Sorry! You're English is better than my Italian anyway.. heheh]

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:37 am

SLuckyD I'm Italian....... Please PM in Italian what you just said!

*edit* Oh... I realized that you're no Italian... Sorry :-P

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:45 pm

Well... I tried everything you said :-(

no lucky
@Amethyst Deceiver and @SLuckyD, please can you check directly and "sanitize" my mod? I'll pass you it by email :-(

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:13 am

Nope, not Italian... I'm American; but I'm an amateur linguist, and spent SEVERAL years working with Sicilians and Italians. My email and Skyrim Nexus allows accents.. strange THIS forum doesn't. But you have excellent English.. so unless someone translated it for you... heheheh

Go ahead and email me the ESP if you want. SLuckyD555@yahoo.com

I'll take a look at it later today or tomorrow.... and I'll ask you in email what it is you hope to do and why.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:27 pm

Just sent! Thank you very much SluckyD, really!

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:06 am

Hello,
issue about YngolBarrow01 is not solved yet. However I've released a "final version" of my mod with this issue. If you want to play it check "The Secret of Dragonhead" on the Nexus or at the Workshop. Warning: you must be at least lvl 40-50 to complete it (it is very hard!).

Thanks all.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:10 am

Hello,
issue about YngolBarrow01 is not solved yet. However I've released a "final version" of my mod with this issue. If you want to play it check "The Secret of Dragonhead" on the Nexus or at the Workshop. Warning: you must be at least lvl 40-50 to complete it (it is very hard!).

Thanks all.

Did you made your mod based on the update.esm? Remove the dependance, you don't need it.

Cleaning should be done in CK. Set the ignore flag, then load the mod and save it. Make sure that the ignore flag did its job, or do it again.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:33 am

Actually he should be using Update.esm as a master. So should everyone else. Otherwise mods will begin showing up with the potential to wipe out official bugfixes.

Also using TESVSnip isn't recommended due to the fact that it mishandles compressed record data.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:52 pm

Did you made your mod based on the update.esm? Remove the dependance, you don't need it.

Never used the update.esm

Cleaning should be done in CK. Set the ignore flag, then load the mod and save it. Make sure that the ignore flag did its job, or do it again.

Please read the first post

Actually he should be using Update.esm as a master. So should everyone else. Otherwise mods will begin showing up with the potential to wipe out official bugfixes.

I'll try tonight to add update.esm

Also using TESVSnip isn't recommended due to the fact that it mishandles compressed record data.

What do you reccomend?

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:22 am

Actually he should be using Update.esm as a master. So should everyone else. Otherwise mods will begin showing up with the potential to wipe out official bugfixes...

So does the http://www.creationkit.com/Category:Getting_Started#Creating_Your_First_Plugin need to be updated?

You can be certain that most newcomers to TES will be using skyrim.esm, since that's what the official site recommends!

For an existing mod, can we simply change the master to update.esm on the File > Data panel without risk to the work we've done so far?

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:31 am

@MannyGT

Try deleting the corrupt instance (YngolBarrow01) in CK, then set the ignore flag on the deleted instance and save it. Sometimes ignores get ignored by the CK, but deleting and ignoring them does help.

Actually he should be using Update.esm as a master. So should everyone else. Otherwise mods will begin showing up with the potential to wipe out official bugfixes.

Not only does the Update.esm create multiple unignorable instances, it will also certainly corrupt some of your related changes. From my experience it is much safer to do the changes made by official patches by yourself.

The only reason I'm aware of to base your plugin on Update.esm, are the changes to how smithing skill works since 1.5.

Also, changes in your plugin that are also covered by the Update.esm, will automatically create a dependance on Update.esm.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:20 am

@MannyGT

Try deleting the corrupt instance (YngolBarrow01) in CK, then set the ignore flag on the deleted instance and save it. Sometimes ignores get ignored by the CK, but deleting and ignoring them does help.

If I correctly understand: You are asking to
- load the mod
- delete the cell YngolBarrow01
- Save the mod
- Exit CK
- Reload CK
- Load the mod using ignore flag to YngolBarrow01

Is that are you asking to me?

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:02 am

- load the mod
- delete the cell YngolBarrow01
- Save the mod
- Exit CK
- Load the mod using ignore flag to YngolBarrow01
- Save the mod and check again if the YngolBarrow01 is still in detail section
- repeat if necessary

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:08 pm

Io in realta dimenticato di verificare la presenza di Yngol Barrow quando ho guardato il tuo ESP (nella email)... dispiace. Guardando di nuovo, si, contiene ancora la cella interiore per quella zona. Ho bisogno di scaricare la nuova versione prima di restituire un ESP fisso. Hai fatto le altre modifiche che suggerite per il navMesh?

[I actually forgot to check for Yngol Barrow when I looked at your ESP (in the email)... sorry. Looking at it again, yes it still contains the interior cell for that area. I'd email you the ESP with the change, but you've added to the ESP since then; so I'll dl the new version. Did you make the other changes I suggested about the navMesh?]

(and no, she didn't add update.esm to the dependencies. I think that would only be necessary if the mod actually references something that ESM contains.)

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:55 pm

Hello SluckyD, don't worry :smile:

For the missing tri nearby the stairs, I don't remember. I've published new version because the dead imperial is too near the jail grate wall (you can pickpot without opening the door) and fixed all the "Is full LOD" to off for all exterior prefab of the fort.
I'll check tonight about the tri and I'll try the suggestion by *Mofakin*.
However if you want, you can examinate the last version, you can find it at the Nexus.

Thank you all very much!

*EDIT* I've no (second) email from you :-(

something goes wrong?
*EDIT2* "she"? Ehm...

I'm a "he" ^_^

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:47 am

Sorry, my mistake... I must've been thinking of other languages with names ending in "a" as opposed to "o". But I haven't sent a second email.. just dl'ed the new version and haven't looked at it yet. There were also more missing tri's than the one at the stairs... that was only the first one I came across, and it would stop Player's follower from going ANYWHERE further down the fort.

I wasn't talking about the LOD, I was referring to the navMesh which goes under those walls... it has to be deleted or NPCs will think they can walk right through it and get stuck. NEW navMesh also has to be added up the staircase or followers will only enter the fort after returning from fast-travel. That's why I didn't make any quick changes to the first ESP... I think much more should be done to the mod than just deleting that one barrow area. Since I'm working on my own mods, I don't really have time to work on another... sorry!

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:17 am

no problem

I really appreciated you help!
Thank you very much.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:46 am

Tried all as above... Nothing... No luck... Well... I renounce

*edit*

Wrye says:

Traceback (most recent call last):  File "bash\basher.pyo", line 6295, in CheckMods  File "bash\bosh.pyo", line 6309, in checkMods  File "bash\bosh.pyo", line 13588, in scan_Many  File "bash\bosh.pyo", line 13718, in _scan_Python  File "bash\brec.pyo", line 301, in unpackRecHeader  File "bash\game\skyrim.pyo", line 779, in unpackbash.brec.ModError: mannyDragonhead.esp: Bad header type: NAVM

mannyDragonhead.esp is the mod...

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:14 pm

So does the http://www.creationkit.com/Category:Getting_Started#Creating_Your_First_Plugin need to be updated?

You can be certain that most newcomers to TES will be using skyrim.esm, since that's what the official site recommends!

For an existing mod, can we simply change the master to update.esm on the File > Data panel without risk to the work we've done so far?

Yes, so I updated the wiki just now. The pic that was used as an example even showed Update.esm as a master to the mod file, which didn't match the text, so now it's consistent.

It's perfectly safe to add Update.esm after the fact. Though if your mod happens to have changed something it would have changed, your mod will still be overriding that back to an unpatched state.

Not only does the Update.esm create multiple unignorable instances, it will also certainly corrupt some of your related changes. From my experience it is much safer to do the changes made by official patches by yourself.

The only reason I'm aware of to base your plugin on Update.esm, are the changes to how smithing skill works since 1.5.

Also, changes in your plugin that are also covered by the Update.esm, will automatically create a dependance on Update.esm.

Multiple unignorable instances of what? I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

It's not going to corrupt anything by using it, and you can't really know what it's changing since there are no anolysis tools yet that most people will understand. Picking apart things at that level of detail isn't something the average modder should be worrying about. So using Update.esm will assure that they don't accidentally change something.

The smithing changes were hardcoded into the exe, Update.esm has nothing to do with those. The updated killcam records ARE in Update.esm though, and they can affect other records around them in the file since the originals in Skyrim.esm are larger. THAT can lead to corruption if Update.esm isn't used because the CK has no way to know otherwise.

Also it's not going to attach Update.esm to your file on its own. You have to do that. Though personally I wish they'd made it a hardcoded requirement from day 1. Then these issues wouldn't be cropping up now and everyone's mods would be in a consistent state as far as master data overrides.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:20 am

Try http://www.mediafire.com/?2hfcehd4xay9ey2. It's the on the Nexus 'clean' as a whistle.

Spoiler

[Filtering done]  Processed Records: 825288 Elapsed Time: 00:05[Undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 2935 Undeleted Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of OrotheimExterior01 [CELL:000094AC] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,8)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of OrotheimExterior02 [CELL:0000948B] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,9)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000094AB] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -16,8)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000094AF] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -20,8)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000094CD] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,7)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000094D0] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -20,7)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000094EF] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -18,6)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000094F0] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -19,6)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000946A] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,10)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000948A] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -16,9)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000948C] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -18,9)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000948D] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -19,9)Removing: GRUP Exterior Cell Sub-Block 1, -2Removing: OrotheimExterior01 [CELL:000094AC] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,8)Removing: OrotheimExterior02 [CELL:0000948B] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,9)Removing: [CELL:000094AB] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -16,8)Removing: [CELL:000094AF] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -20,8)Removing: [CELL:000094CD] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,7)Removing: [CELL:000094D0] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -20,7)Removing: [CELL:000094EF] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -18,6)Removing: [CELL:000094F0] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -19,6)Removing: [CELL:0000946A] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -17,10)Removing: [CELL:0000948A] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -16,9)Removing: [CELL:0000948C] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -18,9)Removing: [CELL:0000948D] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -19,9)Removing: [NAVM:000E87C6]Removing: [NAVM:000E8810]Removing: [NAVM:000E8812]Removing: [NAVM:000E8814]Removing: [NAVM:000EBE9D]Removing: [NAVM:000EBE97]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEA0]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEA1]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEA2]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEA5]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEAA]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEAE]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEAF]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEB0]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEB1]Removing: [NAVM:000EBEB2]Removing: [NAVM:000EC1B3]Removing: [NAVM:000EF71A]Removing: [NAVM:000EF71C]Removing: [NAVM:000EF77A]Removing: [NAVM:000EF77B]Removing: [NAVM:000EF77C]Removing: [NAVM:000EF722]Removing: [NAVM:000F0EB5]Removing: [NAVM:000F31AA]Removing: [NAVM:000F1441]Removing: [NAVM:000268EE]Removing: [NAVM:0010F93A]Removing: [NAVM:0010F93B]Removing: [NAVM:0010F93C]Removing: [NAVM:0010F939]Removing: [NAVM:00107257]Removing: [NAVM:00108BF2]Removing: [NAVM:00108BF3]Removing: [NAVM:00108BF4]Removing: [NAVM:00108C0A]Removing: [NAVM:00108C08]Removing: [NAVM:00108C09]Removing: [NAVM:00108C1A]Removing: [NAVM:00108C1B]Removing: [NAVM:00108C1C]Removing: [NAVM:00108C1D]Removing: [NAVM:00108C19]Removing: [NAVM:00108C28]Removing: [NAVM:00108C29]Removing: [REFR:000A7EBD] (places MountainTrim01FieldGrass01 [STAT:0006E081] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of Dragonhead01 [CELL:000094AD] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -18,8))Removing: [REFR:000A7EC1] (places MountainCliffSlopeFieldGrass01 [STAT:0006E06B] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of Dragonhead02 [CELL:000094AE] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -19,8))Removing: [REFR:0004BA93] (places AutoLoadDoor01 \"s/\" [DOOR:00031897] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:00000D74] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at 0,0))Removing: [REFR:000423C8] (places RockCliff03 [STAT:00025DA8] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of Dragonhead03 [CELL:000094CE] (in Tamriel \"Skyrim\" [WRLD:0000003C] at -18,7))[Removing \"Identical to Master\" records done]  Processed Records: 2935 Removed Records: 74 Elapsed Time: 00:00

Also, added an L_NavCut collision sphere at the base of the tower so AI won't walk into it. Manually removed the block with the stubborn cell as that was all that was in it.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:51 am

thank you very much! I'll try ASAP your cleaned ESP. From what software come that log?

*edit* The stubborn cell YngolBarrow01 is still here...