If Argonians are cold blooded, how can they be intelligent? It has been proven in biology that it would be impossible for a cold blooded creature to evolve intelligence. Ho hum. :shakehead:

Thou shouldst not doubt the power of the Hist!

But, yeah, they aren't fully cold-blooded

I see, forgive my ignorance.

Biology can't prove anything. Empirical data might suggest something, but experiments can't prove that something will always be the case.

Sharks and some animals aren't completely cold-blooded in that they produce enough energy, through movement, to make body warmth. Modern day reptiles slow down in the cold. Plenty of extinct reptiles (dinosaurs) are thought to have been warm-blooded, but that only ties them more closely together with birds and lends to the argument that they could have feathers.

I wouldn't mind some subtle feathers for that reason. If Argonian feathers don't fit with TES lore, however, then that would be my reason against them (TES lore>reality).

Regardless of lore, I'm all for making more options for character customization. It wouldn't be too hard for them to nudge in new lore about it either, not that I think that would be a problem anyways. I do hope that argonians in general look more lizard/beast like.

Subtle feathers http://th05.deviantart.net/fs10/150/i/2006/124/8/c/Talon_portrait_DrakainaQueen_by_Primal_Rage.jpg would be alright for me.

Head styles http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs50/f/2009/316/3/a/Argonian_Tales_sketches_1_by_Hndz.jpg would be great too.

that looks just like hair, seems weird on a reptile



I like that if you could change the lenght that would be great

I certainly want the Argonians to be more beastly this time, but I'm not sure about the feathers. What if we swapped the feathers mohawk for lizard like spines or frills mohawk?

I don't want my lovely argonians [I play like 85% of the time with argonians]

I want them to look more lizard/beast again. Than the human side which the had on Oblivion. But i didn't like the morrowind version aswell. I want them to recreate them and look very lizard like. But no feathers i want them to have horns etc.

Didn't birds evolve from dinosaurs? Ever seen a featherless bird or an eagles eye? They look like lizards. http://insidetheiggles.com/files/2009/09/eagle-eye2.jpg



What I would like to see is Aragonians with snake like heads. Imagine a cobra style head on an aragonian.Something like this maybe. http://pics.livejournal.com/morningstarlady/pic/004dqw1y/s640x480

Once someone asked about 'names' for his character and I found this site, which not only has appropriate names but some of the best picture ideas for Argonains:

http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/namelists/a/nameslizards.htm

Argoinans swim very fast right? They like to be in the water and therefor evolution would remove their feathers if they ever had any.

yes that's cool instead of a beard made of hair you could have this in different styles

Base them off iksars in EQ 2. Nuff' said

I realy do like to see more different looks in the Argonian aesthetics.
I know exactly what you mean with the feathers.
It could be a evolutional thing, that the argonians have more colors / more feautures within their race.

I think: good idea

While it is true that Argonians most likely do have more colors/differences within their race, it isn't an evolution thing, but a Hist thing. There are no Hist in Skyrim, so Argonians in Skyrim would be as they were when they arrived there. Evolution really isn't that much of a factor for Argonians, which, in a sense, is a good thing, as they wouldn't have really been around long in their current, human-like, form (nor would they have probably ever reached their current human-like form if they relied on evolution).

The Hist, however, granted them abilities and powers based on their home: Black Marsh. They are like a crocodile/toad -- they have zero need for feathers and feathers on them make no sense whatsoever. Feathers have no place on Argonians based on the lore. As much as I would've preferred more lizard-like Argonians in Oblivion, the very human-like Argonians in Oblivion were at least compatible with the lore of Argonians.

Birds ancestors were reptiles - dinosaurs to be exact.
Feathers are modified scales which they evolved over time to lose more weight, keep heat and use to attract opposite six. Their feet still have scales like lizards do. Earliest found bird species was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx, which lived 150–148 million years ago, and it's very reptile like. That time our ancestors were more similar to mouses than great apes.

There's long distance from reptiles becoming birds, but the connection is there and it makes sense. Reptiles DID grow feathers.

In Morrowind argonians could have horns. I want horns back!

Thank you!


This too. More variety in general would be good.

If I can muster the time, materials, and skill, I'll sketch or water-color a concept piece of a partially-feathered Argonian, put it on a suitable website, and post a link to it. No promises, but I'll try and get around to it.

I'm not trying to say they should be covered with feathers, that would be too much; I'm saying that small patches, and a Mohawk-like crest of appropriately colored feathers could be a very cool option.

I think feathers could work, but I'm not sure.

But I'm really getting irritated by people who keep saying: "It's not in the lore SO IT'S WRONG!". Well, if nothing can be added or changed to the lore wouldn't we still be playing Arena? Only with better graphics.. Of course there's things that just wouldn't fit in there, like VATS, but there might as well be some distant form of Argonian which can't swim as well, but has a resistance to cold, or something.

If it's not in the lore it can be added to the lore.

If the lore says Argonians do not have feathers we shouldn't even have the discussion.

That's what I'm saying.
Lore doesn't explicitely say: 'There are no Argonians with feathers! so shut up!' It just doesn't mention it. So it could be added. But ofcourse there has to be an excuse for it that actually makes sense.

Yes, lore changes constantly from game-to-game. What I'm suggesting isn't going to [censored] what's been written about Argonians, only alter it slightly to bring a new visual element into the game. It would take a single sentence to add it in, and would damage nothing in terms of continuity.

Would this, more or less, destroy the series?: Argonians born in northern regions such as Solstheim and Skyrim have been observed with accelerated metabolisms giving them a more warm-blooded nature, and small patches and crests of feathers found on the wrists, feet, and along the skull and spine leading down to the tali.

I'm the biggest Argonian lover around, and no way would I want to play an Argonian with feathers. Yuck.

Yes, but have we ever seen any bird-like Argonians within lore? I wouldn't mind seeing them, as long as its subtle and they don't overdo it.

im hoping that since this game is in skyrim there will be very few beast races........they always look silly to me and look like someones pet started walking upright and talking. i figure that skyrim will be filled with lots of nords and some dunmer and imperials since they get around alot. i cant see alot of elves or redguards moving there. there might be some orcs since i think they had a joint invasion force into morrowind but its been awhile so i could be wrong on that.