Any confirmed issues with CK 1.6.89 and Skyrim 1.7? : V

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:27 pm

I thought I should create a thread for the discussion of compatability between the current CK release (1.6.89) and the newly released 1.7 patch. As we know the release of 1.6, and later the 1.6.91 CK caused issues and people needed to revert, losing a lot of work.

Has anyone had any issues with mods saved with the current CK and 1.7 that would most likely require a revert to fix?

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:46 pm

and more importantly, if the dialogue bugs are fixed

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:02 pm

On that, last I had heard was esp's appear fixed, but esm's are still botched.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:36 pm

I've not seen any issues. The 1.6.91 CK seemed to relate to a game version that significantly altered the EXE and ESM files compared to ours. 1.7 doesn't even touch the ESM files, only the EXE. It seems fine.

» Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:26 am

CK 1.6.89 appears to be perfectly safe to continue using alongside Patch 1.7. I ran all the update testing on my last alt-start update using 1.7.

The dialogue bug in ESP files has been fixed which will liberate the USKP from the prison it's currently in. I think the reason we don't see it on the changelog is because ESMs aren't fixed yet. Who knows, there may yet be another patch arriving with Dawnguard. Although I'm suspecting the possibility that Dawnguard itself will be an ESP since they fixed the two biggest crippling issues ESPs had, and their motivation to do so wouldn't likely be just so us modders could have peace.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:36 pm

CK 1.6.89 appears to be perfectly safe to continue using alongside Patch 1.7. I ran all the update testing on my last alt-start update using 1.7.

The dialogue bug in ESP files has been fixed which will liberate the USKP from the prison it's currently in. I think the reason we don't see it on the changelog is because ESMs aren't fixed yet. Who knows, there may yet be another patch arriving with Dawnguard. Although I'm suspecting the possibility that Dawnguard itself will be an ESP since they fixed the two biggest crippling issues ESPs had, and their motivation to do so wouldn't likely be just so us modders could have peace.

Oh god I hope it isn't an esp... They did say that they had to worry about the cell object limit thing, which I don't think ESM's have... Oh no. If they never fix the issues for esm's then I'm screwed...

Though look at this thread, it suggests that esp dialogue possibly isn't fixed afterall: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1399783-dialogue-no-longer-works/

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:22 pm

As I just posted there, bad testing methods are bad. The conclusions drawn from that become suspect immediately. It may seem harsh, but I wouldn't expect a report in which "I COC'd from main menu" was listed as a step would get much attention paid to it. Frankly I've never understood why that's even possible.

» Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:01 am

...but I wouldn't expect a report in which "I COC'd from main menu" was listed as a step would get much attention paid to it. Frankly I've never understood why that's even possible.

I've wondered why it's possible too...

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:43 pm

It's possible so devs test their work, starting a new game and going trough all quests and stuff isn't the way to test modifications. If the setup is right, everything has to work, with coc or no coc.

It's nice to hear that there's no problems, carry on....

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:46 pm

As I just posted there, bad testing methods are bad. The conclusions drawn from that become suspect immediately. It may seem harsh, but I wouldn't expect a report in which "I COC'd from main menu" was listed as a step would get much attention paid to it. Frankly I've never understood why that's even possible.

The character that gets generated is the default Dovakhin guy Mt Howard played in the E3 presentation :tongue:

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:04 pm

The character that gets generated is the default Dovakhin guy Mt Howard played in the E3 presentation :tongue:

I thought I heard/read somewhere that the game makes a default character, so thanks for that. The reason I ask "why it's possible" though, is because of the "rumors" that I've heard that the intro sets the "stage" (sort to speak) for quests and such to work properly. Maybe those reports are not correct and the intro is not important?

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:42 pm

The only thing i'd use a coc from main menu for is to quickly test out a level design. As has already been mentioned, a clean save after Helgen is always preferable (especially when testing out scripting). As long as all you want to do ischeck out is how your layout is coming along in game, then I see nothing wrong with this quick test method

- Hypno

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:32 pm

I agre about the COC thing, but the dialogue issue being disussed in the other thread affects save games as well. It seems it only happens with certain situations and different save games.

I need to do more testing myself, it can't just be random, there has to be a specific reason to its cause.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:44 pm

Didn't tested this, but by the look of those comments it seems that they may have fixed the dialog issue when you edited vanilla topics (which affected USKP and also my TG mod) but introduced other issues which didn't manifested on 1.6

» Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:19 am

... by the look of those comments it seems that they may have fixed the dialog issue when you edited vanilla topics (which affected USKP and also my TG mod) but introduced other issues which didn't manifested on 1.6

Can't say what may have been fixed, but I can definately confirm new problems that did not exist in 1.6. See B1gBadDaddy's thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1399783

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:03 pm

I always coc from the menu and everything works, do you honestly believe devs start a new game to test modifications? That would take ages just to fine tune a scene.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:51 pm

I always coc from the menu and everything works, do you honestly believe devs start a new game to test modifications? That would take ages just to fine tune a scene.

No, but they can save their game directly after the Helgen scene, and use COC on a fully-built character to perform testing, or save directly before the scene. This is what is being suggested as a best practice. I do it every day, I keep a special save game just for this purpose, works wonders.

The point is simulating a possible user case when testing, as early and as often as possible. If the user would never COC from the main menu to experience your content, no matter how well it works for you or doesn't work, it still doesn't represent a valid use case. If your testing consists entirely of invalid use cases, your content is effectively untested.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:22 pm

Testing after a save is what causes problems, so coc is better solution than that imo, I will continue to test everything without saves.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:55 pm

Testing after a save is what causes problems

It does? One of my mods will ONLY work after it's been saved. As Elyanou suggested (in the other thread), after a save some things seem to be properly initialized. Obviously that's a lousy "work-around", but I have not seen any problem occur only after saving. If that is true, this is a bigger problem as most people are going to save :wink:

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:28 pm

It does? One of my mods will ONLY work after it's been saved. As Elyanou suggested (in the other thread), after a save some things seem to be properly initialized. Obviously that's a lousy "work-around", but I have not seen any problem occur only after saving. If that is true, this is a bigger problem as most people are going to save :wink:

Yes, unfortunately it does:

http://www.creationkit.com/Save_File_Notes_%28Papyrus%29

Saves are the worst thing when testing scripts (for example), like I said, I will continue to test everything without saves, not saying everyone should do that, that's how it works the best for me.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:56 pm

Saves are the worst thing when testing scripts (for example), like I said, I will continue to test everything without saves, not saying everyone should do that, that's how it works the best for me.

Okay, yes, definately agree in that scenario. When I make saves for testing, I am making the save with NO mods active, then activating the mod and loading. So I'm always loading on a clean save. (I would never consider it a valid test to make a save while the mod is still being developed, as you point out.)

Regarding the dialog bug I linked the topic, that's a difference scenario. I've already released those mods so saving is a valid test case, as the users are going to be saving. There is something specific to the dialog bug though that causes the dialog to work for some people only after saving. That was my point.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:22 pm

Okay, yes, definately agree in that scenario. When I make saves for testing, I am making the save with NO mods active, then activating the mod and loading. So I'm always loading on a clean save. (I would never consider it a valid test to make a save while the mod is still being developed, as you point out.)

Regarding the dialog bug I linked the topic, that's a difference scenario. I've already released those mods so saving is a valid test case, as the users are going to be saving. There is something specific to the dialog bug though that causes the dialog to work for some people only after saving. That was my point.

The point is, different scenarios require different testing

Thats why I said that in my case, in which most of the times involves script modification/adding/etc a save makes things much worst instead of good. People have to think in "what am I testing here?" and then use the most adequate configuration for testing.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:25 pm

Even then, using a save game is the best case. The important bit is using a save game that is "clean"; the only content in the save game comes from Skyrim.esm and Update.esm. Your save game does not know about your scripts at this stage; it has never seen them. When you load this save to test your scripts, they "come into being" for the first time (each time you load this "clean" save game).

If you save your game with your plugin loaded that loads the scripts in question, and then attempt to use that save game again later for testing, yes, you will have problems.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:15 pm

Even then, using a save game is the best case. The important bit is using a save game that is "clean"; the only content in the save game comes from Skyrim.esm and Update.esm. Your save game does not know about your scripts at this stage; it has never seen them. When you load this save to test your scripts, they "come into being" for the first time.

If you save your game with your plugin loaded that loads the scripts in question, and then attempt to use that save game again later for testing, yes, you will have problems.

Again, if I have scripts to work directly in the player since the beginning I prefer to test without save. But like I said many times, I do what I think its best for me, not trying to change minds or anything.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:16 pm

pointless.