How so?

But OP's point is we're given literally 0 examples of a non-fanatic, leaving us to assume, no, this is them.

As a comparison, the majority of the people would refer to Caesar's Legion from Fallout New Vegas as evil. They enslave people, they mercilessly slaughter all who aren't suited to be a soldier or slave and Caesar doesn't really offer any personal freedoms at all. However, throughout the game Caesar will explain to you WHY he does this, and you'll meet multiple level-headed people (philosophers, priests, 200-year-old ghouls with tons of experience with the ways of the world) who support the Legion because they all believe Caesar's Legion to be the strongest and most secure long-term society for the world. "The ends justify the means" is their argument, and to support this, the game also portrays Caesar's Legion as being incredibly loyal, orderly and reliable, whereas other societies are corrupt, full of infighting and lack purpose.

But the Thalmor? They just run around saying "herp derp I'm better than you and I'll kill you if you don't go away, herp derp." None of them bother to explain why they're better, none of them bother to argue why the oppression of Talos is neccesary, none of them treat you as anything other than scum, and they never do anything good or noble for society as a whole. There's not a SINGLE ray of white light shining from the Thalmor in this game. OP would just like to hear both sides of the story, not just "herp derp I'm evil."

all altmer (who worship the evlen gods in summerset isles) want to kill every other race, kill themselves, and destory all of creation, that is the reason the thalmor was formed and that is what their goals are

From what I think I've heard


I don't know how credible my sources are thus I need to get my hands on the novels.

Being more a fan of Mer than Men (at least in principle; they've made the Mer a bit too ugly in Skyrim to garner much enthusiasm on my part), I was quite excited about the ascendency of the Aldmeri Dominion. Little did I know that they would be depicted in Skyrim as cartoonish bad guys without any redeeming values.

Throughout the entire series so far, the Empire have been -- broadly speaking -- represented as being on the right side of every issue/threat in Tamriel, regardless of which race or faction(s) the player character might belong to. There is a great deal more subtlety in the in-game texts, but insofar as main quests and so on are concerned, the Empire is usually the one and only way forward -- although at least Skyrim allows you side against them (for the first time, perhaps?)... albeit with another human-centric faction.

I suspect that it's because of the 'Imperials are the good guys' stance that the series has taken that the faction which poses the most serious threat to them are painted as the unambiguous bad guys -- to such an extent that you can't even side with them. It's a shame, in my book, and I would like to see all the 'evil' factions get a little bit more love (especially vampires ); thus enriching the roleplaying possibilities for those out of sympathy with the designated 'good' factions.

That's probably confusion over the fact that the Camoran family (of Mankar Camoran fame) are highly influential members of the Thalmor. They didn't support what he did.

Altmer were always snobby and Dunmer were always xenophobic. There are good Altmer and good Dunmer too but it's mostly like this.

This, exactly.

Putting the Thalmor aside,I think the game is lacking non-thalmor Altmer characters.How many friendly Altmer NPCs are there actually? And reasonable? The sisters in Solitude are not.I've seen a alchemist about to die in Windhelm.I sure want to meet that Altmer legionaire...


There are plenty of Altmer Conjurers though.I can't help but think the game is a little biased on that matter...But of course my opinion could change if someone could show me some actually friendly Altmer.

Yeah the Imperials are the 'base' humans so they are unilaterally 'good'.

In Daggerfall you could totally give the Empire the finger at the end. In Morrowind the Empire was only somewhat relevant since most of the powers you really dealt with were either Dunmer or Daedric in origin. In Tribunal the Empire mattered even less, and in Bloodmoon they were just a sideshow.

In Redguard the Empire were mostly the bad guys.

Oblivion of course has a rosy picture of the Empire since it takes place in Cyrodiil. Plus Oblivion was a fairly vanilla place in general for reasons outside the scope of this post.

I've enjoyed TES, but I've never been a huge fan of the Empire.

We should be getting a more nuanced picture of the Altmer when TES VI or VII takes us to Valenwood or Alinor. Don't expect it in Skyrim, since the Nords and the Altmer have never really gotten along.


"We can be gods again brother, and only the filthy humans and beast people stand in our way..."

All he has to do is ask.

The Thalmor side of the story is that at the beginning of time some Aedra were trapped in the material world when Lorkhan created it. Because they were trapped here, they became weakened and eventually mortal. Lorkhan's creations, men, maintain the world. They want it back the way it was.

There's actually not a lot of dispute over the facts of the story. Some may question the whole "mer descended from Aedra" thing, but most mer take it as accepted, they just react differently to it. Dunmer think it's a test of strength. Not sure about Bosmer.

Altmer will be varying opinions, but the Thalmor do not tolerate questions of it within their ranks.

Thought I did, in so many words. Apparently another instance where I'm not expressing myself clearly, so I'll just ask: "Why are the Thalmor written so poorly"?

I think part of it is your assumption that they must be written as you demand or it's poor.

You're not even willing to entertain a neutral tone in your question.

Nothing wrong with having standards.

Anyway, I think I'm satisfied. Thanks to everyone who submitted constructive responses.

Thalmor to Altmer are the Taliban to Muslims, Racists to Nationalists, Spanish Inquisitors to Catholics, PETA to Animal Rights Activists, you get the idea. They're a fringe, radical sect on a much wider, more diverse group of people that's taken a strangle hold on past events that've shaken the world, and twist them to their advantage.

Most Altmer do consider themselves better than other races and see Mundus as a prison, but we're talking about a people that's seen their own kinsmen change before their eyes and their empire disintegrate, leading to the rise of men. As we've seen in past installments, many do not mind living side-by-side with other mer or even men or accepting their traditions for their own. There are even Altmer priests in Imperial Temples of the Nine/Eight. Their lives are long and so are their memories. If they hated other Mer and Men that much, the amount of High Elves we'd see all over Tamriel would be abysmal.

Keep in mind the context of Thalmor/Altmer in Skyrim. Most of them are likely the extremists looking to undermine the empire; there seems little purpose in more well-meaing altmer's to go that distance fo Skyrim.

Besides that, however much the Thalmor/Altmer mistread other characters, that could be, at least partially, a reprussion of how they are treated in Skyrim. All Stormcloaks hate them with a passion; just about every other nord, and many of the other races, will have a distate for them.

The Thalmor is good/bad depending on who you are.

If you are an Altmer, then they are the best there is. They fight & die for YOU.


If you are... well, anything but an Altmer, then they'er BAD.


Personally I love the Thalmor, they're bringing the glory back to the mer, as well as giving the Empire a good fight against something else than a Daedric prince or evil lord.

Perhaps. The Dunmer of Windhelm have a realistic reaction to that prejudice, but the Thalmor were obviously like that before they arrived in Skyrim.

It's also pertinent to mention that the Thalmor were a minority political in their native Summerset Isle. They didn't dominate Altmer society by force - they were elevated to power by the Altmer after the Oblivion crisis. So while it's true that not every Altmer is a Thalmor sympathizer, the nation of Summerset Isle at large was shoehorned into embracing the Thalmor by accepting their rule in the first place.

I wish. The Thalmor treat my Altmer mage as scum, anyway. Wish they responded differently to you if you were an Altmer.

The earlier posters have it, the Thalmor do not represent to whole of the Altmer race, only a subsection of it. There are non-Thalmor Altmer in the game that either follow the general "arrogant Altmer" stereotype, and there are those that deviate from it and are decent. The head of the Bard's College is a groovy Altmer, whereas in the same city, there are a pair of Altmer sisters who run a clothing shop, and are arrogant as hell. (Seriously, what is it with arrogant Altmer women and clothes? Wonder what kind of statement Bethesda is making with that, intentionally or not.) There are Altmer in the College of Winterhold that are allright, and there's Oncano, the typical Thalmor agent.

Xenophobia and pride bordering on arrogance for one's own race is everywhere, within every species. The Cyrodiilics think Nords have silly traditions, the Nords hate the elves for their persecution, yet they force Argonians to live outside of Windhelm, and don't even let Khajiit within any town walls, and yes, some Altmer are arrogant to the point of extremism. Not all of them are Thalmor, and that goes doubly. Not every Altmer believes in Thalmor ideals, so it's really hard to make a blanket statement like "I really hate where Bethesda went with the Altmer" and not have it be inaccurate. I love where they went with the Thalmor, and like that the rest of the Altmer have the same range of opinions as any other species has. Kill the Thalmor; be discriminating when deciding whether or not to kill all other Altmer. You know, or not, if that's who your character is. Or, side with the Thalmor, and kill all humans! Whatever floats your boat!

If you think the story of Morrowind is better than a lot of novels you have read, I'm sorry, you haven't read many novels.

Yes, the story is deeper than what I represented it as, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I love the game personally (still one of my all-time favorites), but I have also realized that the story isn't some ground-breaking cult-classic. If you cannot look past those rosy shades then you haven't been paying attention.

There's that old Altmer who used to serve the Thalmor in the Great War, but when it ended he became a priest of Arkay in Falkreath in order to atone for his past.
You're asked to retrieve his journal and you can see how much pain and guilt that war caused him. He's the only cool Altmer in the game imo.

For your personal information I should confide in you that the number of books in my bookcases is about five thousand.
Seriously, Im never moving again.
Even one moving box of books is very, very heavy.

And in the words of the writer of the Morrowind story:
"A 40 hour narrative whose main character is only ever referenced is almost Nabokovian in aspiration, and prophecies whose truth is determined only by the player is akin to Borges if he only had been born with a USB port in the back of his beloved neck."

I couldnt say that better, so I use a quote.

Nope. The Thalmor conflict was foreshadowed as early as Oblivion. Some choice quotes:

"I understand Daedra worship has become increasingly prevalent in the Summerset Isle."
"They say syndicates of wizards have led a boycott of Imperial goods in the land of the Altmer."
"The Altmer have powerful wizards. It could become a dangerous situation."

Huh. So wait, people are upset a large portion of the Altmer became "evil", and are now basicly running the empire.

My people got blown the [censored] up and became overran by lizards.